2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 210 times)

Steve - is the Selwyn full certified?  I was pretty sure the Dunedin full was AIMS certified through until 2026 or so.  I get the appeal of doing something close to home though. And if your coach is around to pace for a bit that would help massively as well.

edit: Dunedin Full is certified

So I have a bit of catching up to do, and my first weekly for what feels like months. 

Thanks for that great report, Flavio. And congratulations again on meeting your goal and the excellent, excellent performance. You’ve finally got that white whale. 

I know what you meant with few people understanding. It takes a runner reaching for those same kind of goals to understand why one would continue training, keep putting oneself through the pain of the race, book trips out of state/out of the country to achieve that goal, etc. It’s good your wife is also a runner, so at least you don’t have to convince her about the running part.

Nice metaphor about marathons and waiting rooms! Clearing the mind of the negative thoughts is an easy tip to give, but the hardest thing to do. Good job with that! I’ve been Stinky before. It was definitely due to poor laundry choices to eradicate the pesky bacteria that come specifically with/from sweat. Ruined some good running tops that way. 

I also like what you wrote about taking running less seriously. I need to remind myself of that more often. And the stealth mode was genius. 

And of course the finish line was a Bitburger finish :-) Say what you want, but there are few things I enjoy more after a marathon than a 0,0%, though I prefer Erdinger Alkoholfrei. A great way to refuel without adding to the brain fog that already sets in after a race. 

Steve, sorry to read you were hit so hard, but I think mmerkle’s right, that you’ll probably bounce back quicker than you think. I’ve found Training Peaks to be really sensitive to extreme performances in either direction (either a terrific workout or a terrible one). I wouldn’t worry about it. And as long as your marathon kryponites don’t show up, you can definitely take off tens of minutes from your current time, even if it’s not your best race. 

Re race choices: small races can be great and very motivating, especially if you can get to know the course, course directors and/or other runners before hand (like your coach and training partner). It’s a lot more personal… And smaller races means less waiting around before hand to get things started. 

Oh, and I agree that it’s harder to not be able to run due to injury than sickness. Even with a broken toe or foot, the mind wants to go out there to do something. If the mind is clogged up, then a run is much less tempting.  

Also sorry to read that you DNF’ed, Mark, though like others have written, it was a good call to pull out than end up in the medical tent during or after. Looks like a more-than-solid recovery weak, and hopefully you can build up well to the next race. And don’t forget, there’s always next year for the series! Though I wonder if the RDs would consider dropping poorest performance for the series titles.

Congrats on your successful 6-hour, wcrunner. Thanks also for the report! There’s something really charming about manually recording the laps. That was a pretty good moving pace, and it does seem very encouraging coming back from ablation, etc.!

Congrats also to you, Dave, on your non-downhill PR. It seems very encouraging for Eugene, especially given your physical issues earlier this month/year. And RP beat me to it, but I was also going to ask what you ended up doing about water, since you neglected to put it in your report ;-) Glad that worked out. Also great comic of Flavio’s racing plan. 

And congrats to you, too, Andy! That’s an impressive PR. I don’t know enough about strides to comment, but it does kinda look like there’s some tightness in the hips? And I don’t know how you managed to think to take out your phone and try to take a selfie going through the finish… I’m just worried I don’t trip before getting there! It sounds like your 10K is ready to be hunted down as well. 

Mmerkle, good to read about the ITBS. I wouldn’t have believed how much targeted strength training helps with injuries until I started doing it for my knee. Big volume weeks! Sorry to read you got hit by a bug. I hope it's not too bad.

Nice job on that 5K, Keen, even if it wasn’t a goal race, I’m sure it felt good to knock some rust off. And the longer workouts do look pretty great. 

Re fueling, an interesting conversation. I still haven’t figured out what works best for me in racing or training, but I do know I need something, and I don’t think I’ve ever had too much, yet… unless cramping is a sign of too much… then maybe. Thanks for sharing that run down though, Matt. If I understand correctly, someone with a higher VO2 max needs less fueling during a race, since they can take more fuel from what is already stored in the body? Interesting. Especially with the heat thing. I find myself needing more fuel (not just water) during warm runs than cool runs. 

Mt, sorry to read about your PF woes. It stinks. Sounds like you’re doing what you can to get better… though I wonder if a rest is on the table as well? More sleep would certainly help on multiple fronts.  Resting didn’t personally work for me, but it does for some people. But as long as you can warm up for the 5K and start it without falling, you should be able to run it, and even run it well! My marathon PR for the longest time was on a PF foot that had been around for 8 months… it is possible. 

RP, hope you get into NY! Steve… you’re saying you don’t expect to? Or did you get a rejection? 

My training is going decently enough. There is a fine line between a niggle and an injury, and I’m walking (running?) it like someone who’s had one drink too many, but I’m not making any drastic moves and continuing to prioritize all the rehab treatments to continue to gently follow the plan. I guess the slow build up, cross training, 2 days a week off running, and the run/walking plan are worth something, because I’m able to increase load by about 10 miles a week (this is replacing cross training each session with actual running again). This was the first week where I was only about 3 miles short of what my plan called for, so I call that a success. If I can get to a 17 mile long run next week and 20 the week after that, as well as get some proper workouts in, it’s something I can live with. I don’t plan to always feel as good as I did in yesterday’s and today’s runs, but it’s quite encouraging. I am still on run/walk intervals, but the prescribed plan will probably end Wednesday, so then it will just be a matter of taking breaks when the calf calls for them. 

Weekly for period: From: 03/11/2024 To 03/17/2024 (edited to add the workouts I incorporated)

Totals: Time: 06:39:58 - 🦅Imperial: 45.2 mi - Metric: 72.7 km

Oh man, feel better people!

Re:Dorothea’s comment on not running due to injury vs. illness—I agree injury is tougher, but for different reasons. When you’re sick—other than special cases (OK, which it seems like some here have had)—usually you know you’ll be down for a few days or a week, then back to it. With an injury—usually you have no earthly idea how long it will take. Running injuries are notoriously hard to diagnose, and hard to decide whether to run through it or rest it or seek treatment. Sometimes things heal fairly quickly on their own, sometimes you’re impacted for months. And it messes with your head—you’re always wondering whether it will come back. 

My week was not too bad. Skipped the midweek workout in consideration of recovery from last weekend’s half. Things felt pretty sluggish most of the week and the paces showed it. Wednesday I caught a toe and went down hard on the sidewalk, scraping myself up pretty good. That’s never fun.

For my LR I planned 18 miles with last 8 at MP. Following my half, I’m thinking my Eugene goal could possibly be 3:12, or 7:20/mi. Figured I’d try that and see how it felt. The nice thing about doing my LR’s with a group is that more often than not you have company, no matter what you decide to do. I with with a group of 18-milers running about 8:30/mi, and one of them on a whim said sure he’d join me for my 8 at 7:20. That was helpful. But in the end the result was sort of inconclusive. First mile was spot on, next two I had trouble staying under 7:30, next two were slow due to hills, last three were nailed. So—who knows. Could’ve been worse. Six weeks to go. Next weekend I’m pacing the first half of a marathon, then plan to keep running to get about 22 steady miles. The weekend after that, I’ll try ~10 at MP. Then racing a 10k (why not!), then it’s pretty much taper.

Weekly for period: From: 03/11/2024 To 03/17/2024

Totals: Time: 09:37:03 - 🦅Imperial: 63.60 mi - Metric: 102.33 km

72 miles running, 1000 yards swimming, and 90 minutes pool-running.

M: 8 miles very easy (9:34) and streaming yoga.
Tu: 11.5 miles, including a track workout of 7x800 in 3:36, 3:36, 3:30, 3:25, 3:21, 3:17, 3:14 (recoveries mostly at 2:1x-2:3x; one outlier at 3 minutes). Followed with leg strengthwork. Sports massage in afternoon.
W: 90 minutes pool-running, 500 yards swimming, and upper body weights/core. .
Th: 9 miles very easy on trails (9:52); streaming pilates in evening.
F: 10 miles, including a tempo on the track in 28:06 (7:12/7:04/6:59/6:51), followed by a relaxed 2x200 in 51 and 50 seconds. Then leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
Sa: 12 miles very easy (9:12) followed by upper body weights/core.
Su: 21 miles progressive, split as the first 7 miles averaging 9:17 pace, the next 7 miles averaging 8:21 pace, and the next 7 miles averaging 7:35 pace, plus a 1/2 mile cooldown. Followed with injury prevention work.

This was my peak week of Boston training, and I was pretty happy with it, especially the Friday and Sunday workouts, both of which felt smooth and controlled. I'm only doing one 20+ mile long run this cycle, but I honestly think at this point I only need one. And I really believe that as we get older it's really important to only do as many workouts as you need.

I was particularly happy with Sunday's long run because that marathon pace section was run as 2 miles uphill, and then 5 miles downhill.  Normally that would be a "cheat" but one of the things that I've really struggled with is running as anything faster than a jog downhill - I just have stability problems that make it very challenging - especially when wearing supershoes.  To the point where earlier in the year I was running faster on the flat for a given effort than on a 2% decline.  But today I ran downhill in supershoes and ran decently (while dodging walker with dogs and kids on scooters) - which really builds my confidence that I will be able to run the downhills at Boston at something close to what I would run on flat pavement.

Also, because I'm sure it will get some questions - Tuesday's interval workout was not intended to be that sharp a cut-down. It's just that the workout started on an unlit track before the sun rose, and I find it really hard to run fast in the dark. As the sun rose, my splits got faster.

MT - Damn, 25 to 27 seconds per 200 is MOVING!!!
While training for the 1500m 4 years ago I had the same speed for the 100, 200 and 400 (16s, 32s and 64s), guess I can't sprint LOL

MMerkle - I'm not sure why, but I've struggled massively to eat gels while running while training for Valencia.
This had never been an issue before, I vividly remember consuming 4 gels in that marathon in Austria 3 years ago.
So what would happen is even at easy pace, as I tried to down a small bite of the gel, it's like it would block my airways and I'd struggle to breathe for a few seconds.
I know the larynx has to close while you're eating so you don't get bits of food in your lungs, so I guess some incoordination in my para system ?
Anyway, back in December I vowed to try more liquid gels, but I honestly forgot to do that.
Then on race day I figured why bother carrying gels if I can't eat them, so I just took one gel in my back pocket.
It turns out this time it was surprisingly easier to consume it, so who knows.

DW - I'm hearing more and more good news from you and that is nice. You're setting yourself up for a good race in Boston.

RP - That was honestly a great rust buster. In my experience the 5K hurts from half way on a well executed day, and the first mile comes "for free".
But you did it the way I usually do, which is go out balls to the wall (the most fun way)

me - Now that I've got the "job done" I can focus again on running for fun.

One of the races I was eyeing is the Porto EcoTrail, but it seems the EcoTrail brand is not doing so well, their site is way out of day and their social media is dead.

I've found another trail race on the same day (Apr 7th) and I'm considering running that instead.

It's a bit over 17km (11 miles) with 750m elevation again (2500feet). It sounds fun with stream crossing / bit of mud / running in the forest etc.

1st place ran 1h32 last year so you know it's a tough course.

I've also found some road miles that I might try to get in.

Track meets however are incredibly rare it seems. I've only found ONE race in the whole calendar year in the whole of Portugal, and that's the national champs in mid June.

Flavio I think I went out with pride, and a self challnge set about 5 seconds before race start. After looking into the Daniels race calculator  spreadsheet it puts me where I belong. My threshold runs at 6:00/mi were stupid fast. Even for the PR I wanted they should be 6:12/mi. I let these get to me because I didn't understand the training.

February 7 800m repeats at 2:56-2:58 with one being a 3:07.

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/13862069752

Feb 15 1,200m repeats at 4:30

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/13980187028

I was targeting a 6:00/mi pace. I'm pretty sure this one had a slight headwind impacting my run. Still...I'll call it 6:05/mi pace (3:47/km).

4x200m + 15 Threshold + 4x200m

https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/13788612497

All of the 200m repetitions match my 5k result. Even here I'd have to be 2 seconds, or more, faster to hit my PR goal.

I totally ignored the signs putting me where I was. Telling me I was in sub-19 shape. The last 6 weeks of training clearly show I wasn't in PR shape. I'd like to say it's due to me not running as many miles as I did for Boston last year, and the last time I ran this course. It's the easiest and most obvious difference to point at. Last year I had a bunch of snow to run though, and did speed work in the cold and even on ice once or twice. This year...it was too sunny to run some days, or my mood wasn't in it, or I didn't sleep well and quit because I had nothing left.

I can do an overlay of my 2024, 2023 (PR) and 2016 results in Garmin. 2023 I started to pull away just around halfway, and 2024 me hung in there without losing sight of 2023 me. 2023 me REALLY put a gap between ourselves in the final 1,000m. At the end I was 1 block (literally) ahead.

I shouldn't be unhappy about it. Training reflects the results. VDOT projects out to a 3:01 marathon (don't use a 5k to predict marathon performance while also using it to determine self worth) which is maybe better than most times I've looked into marathon training. I think I'm usually in the 3:05 range at the start of marathon training. 3:01 is better.

The lows are so low because the highs are so high.

 

Steve - when do you have to decide which marathon you are doing?  Seems like things could change in another week or two.

I can avoid a change fee if I swap to the half by Friday.  I guess there's no real hurry but I do like having a plan.  It's 4.5 weeks until race day and I have nothing but negative feelings when I think about doing a marathon that soon.  Plus I will have missed the biggest month of training.

Flavio - I tried to take running less seriously.  It worked over winter when I was doing the trail series.  When I got back to familiar road events series over summer and had a rivalry on my hands, that all went out the window lol (hence why I was particularly gutted about the DNF at Maraetai).

mmerkle - hope you're feeling better soon. I've had some colds that felt way rougher than Covid.  Don't force yourself back into it.  As a general rule, if the symptoms are above the neck, easy running is OK, but I certainly wouldn't do any workouts until you're feeling better.  Even then, the fatigue element is something to be very wary of.  Darkwave's advice was pretty sound, I think.

Dorothea - hope that calf is coming right.  The run/walk gig seemed to work well for a running buddy of mine when he was getting back into it not so long ago.

Dave - ugh, sorry to hear about the tumble.  Happens to all of us sometimes but doesn't make it any less humbling.

Darkwave - good to hear you are feeling more confident on the downhills.  It still surprises me how many runners actually aren't that great at taking advantage of them.