Forums >Racing>2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks)
Intl. correspondent
MT - thanks for the detailed explanation, that's exactly what I needed!I'll have no issues targeting a positive split seeing as I end up with one like that whenever I don't PR LOLI definitely have a very high aerobic pain threshold, but I'm probably not physically strong enough to keep momentum in the race.It should definitely be fun.I plan on running an 800m time trial maybe next week or the one after that. I'll probably also run a self timed 400m all out to see what I can do now at the beginning of the block.I do have a bit of experience with the anaerobic system having trained for the 1500m twice.
WC - thanks for the recs, I'm most likely an 800/1500 type of runner.
me - alright so I have a bit of a plan. There are 2 track meets in June, one is the regional champs and is nearby, the other one is the national champs and is on the other side of the country. There are also a couple of road mile races that I could target as practice.
I could also do a series of time trials in between.
This all sounds very fun and I'm excited to try out some fast running again.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Problem Child
I am *really* curious what the cut-offs were now. Of course, you could argue that doing it by percentage is more fair than by minutes/seconds, because for the faster marathon times, a cutoff of "x minutes and y seconds" is a bigger percentage of your marathon time. Put another way, it's a lot easier for a 4:00 marathoner to take 5 minutes off of their time than it is for a 3:00 marathoner to do so. For those of you who want to run NYC and don't get in...remember that there is always the option of running with me and fetching me cups of water at my command. MT79 - I'm really curious - which running club in Arlington VA? (I happen to run with one of the Arlington VA running clubs, and have friends in each of the other clubs)
I am *really* curious what the cut-offs were now. Of course, you could argue that doing it by percentage is more fair than by minutes/seconds, because for the faster marathon times, a cutoff of "x minutes and y seconds" is a bigger percentage of your marathon time. Put another way, it's a lot easier for a 4:00 marathoner to take 5 minutes off of their time than it is for a 3:00 marathoner to do so.
For those of you who want to run NYC and don't get in...remember that there is always the option of running with me and fetching me cups of water at my command.
MT79 - I'm really curious - which running club in Arlington VA? (I happen to run with one of the Arlington VA running clubs, and have friends in each of the other clubs)
You're not deaf are you? If you're deaf it's probably an advantage of having me pace you.
Also, is it illegal/against your training to use a soft flask? Custom liquid fueling on demand for peak performance is there.
Also, how many Chipotle bowls are necessary for marathon training?
If I don't get in I might actually spend money to fly across the country and unofficially finish a major marathon.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Cobra Commander Keen
DWave - So... what are the details on being a cup fetcher?
Running nerd stuff - I don't put anything into the actual number Garmin gives as a Vo2Max estimate, but I do find the overall trend rather useful in plotting fitness over time. Runalyze let you see that number out to two decimal places (as that's what Garmin actually writes to the .fit files) and see it plotted over time. It think it's nifty that every time I finish a workout and think "that went really well" there's a noticeable jump, but after more "that was the same as last week or so" workouts things hold steady.
And yes, that's nearly a two month decline post 100 miler (plus ~1.5 weeks being sick).
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Hot Weather Complainer
Sorry. They posted that they took the fastest 19% of applicants for each AG. Which I guess seems as fair as anything. Maybe more complaints because the whole thing was confusing to some people, with half times and full times and 10k equivalents. No matter what you do, people will be disappointed. This way of doing it did result in some weirdness. A 65yo woman could beat her marathon qualifying standard by 40 minutes and not get in. There’s just not much meaning to the qualifying standard at that point.
Sorry.
They posted that they took the fastest 19% of applicants for each AG. Which I guess seems as fair as anything. Maybe more complaints because the whole thing was confusing to some people, with half times and full times and 10k equivalents. No matter what you do, people will be disappointed. This way of doing it did result in some weirdness. A 65yo woman could beat her marathon qualifying standard by 40 minutes and not get in. There’s just not much meaning to the qualifying standard at that point.
Yeah I suspected the actual qualifying requirement would be much quicker than advertised but it sounds like it was a whole new ballpark. I suspect I needed more like 1:22 in the half which feels a world away from the 1:26 I got. Maybe I'll get in on the 5% ballot chance but it seems I'll need to pay for a tour package if I ever want to do New York. Boston is much more achievable with a 3:20 qualifying time for my age group, minus 5:39 last year. 3:14 is realistic for me I think.
On that note, I have moved my goal race to Selwyn due to Covid and along with running a good marathon I'd like to get that BQ. They have advertised it as a certified race but it's not in this list:
https://worldathletics.org/download/download?filename=05920551-22dd-43f9-a456-069752cf0a9e.pdf&urlSlug=world-athletics-certified-road-races-6-march
I've chatted with my coach and we suspect they think measuring the course properly with a wheel is all they need to do. He's going to follow up with them - I've already asked them why it's not in the list but got no response.
So the question is, do I risk it? Is running a good marathon enough or do I want that BQ. I really want to run a big marathon once so I think I need a certified course. Which brings me back to Wellington, which has a beautiful course on a nice day, but about a 40% chance of a nice running day. I don't want to travel to the Gold Coast or wait until September for Dunedin.
darkwave - Will flights be sponsored? Surely New York will cover that to get an elite like you there (especially given how much they charge to enter!)
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
BACK OFF!!! I CALLED DIBS FIRST! Besides, you've moved on to ultras because marathons give you upset tummy aches. Maybe I'll get in and you can watch me run away up the first hill. Again. #NeverForget.
Overweight per CDC BMI
Well, I got laid off at work today so it looks like I'm going to have a lot of extra time for the next month or two. Hopefully just a month but who knows. I'm going to put in a lot of extra miles while job hunting so I would like some recommendations on how to be smart about that. I have averaged 30 mpw for the past year and a half with getting up to the mid 50s as my highest. I'm thinking that I should just stick to my normal weekly routine but add about 15-20 miles per week of easy running so I don't overdo it. I have a 5K in a little over 4 weeks which I'm targeting for a PR so I'm going to also prioritize a lot of strength work.
Feel free to comment with initial thoughts and I'm sure there will be a lot of conversation back and forth.
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
Andy - Sorry to hear that. Hope you can find something quickly.
Maybe just add 10 miles for a couple weeks. Tack on 3-4 miles on easier days. If you are still feeling good after a couple weeks, add a couple miles on your other days. I’m not sure there is a right or wrong approach to getting a few more miles.
Andy fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkkkk (running).
Best way to increase your miles is to run more. Setup a schedule for when you'll run. For workouts you can do longer warm ups and cool downs to get a few more, and you could get a longer run in during the week. 8 miles a day during the week gets you to 40 miles, and 5 mile weekend runs get you to 50. I think I was doing about 4 miles of speed work for the recent 5k so a 2 mile warm up and cool down makes it 8 miles for a day. Seems so simple until you're just jogging for 20 minutes trying to find a spot nearby to do some repeats on.
Find out where you'll do your workouts. I have a section of road I can do up to 1,200m repeats on and I can make it 1.87 miles from work, or more or less if I need. Perfect location and the jog back to the office can be slightly shorter if I need it to be.
Commander That's interesting. I'm sure there's merit to looking at the trend rather than the value itself, since that can only be properly determined with one of those horrible treadmill tests. I wish there were a way to measure/estimate economy, since that's perhaps equally important.
Steve Why is there only a 40% chance of a good running day at Wellington? So you have 4 weeks until the original goal marathon right? And that one is a certified BQ course, but the one you are thinking about switching to would give you a few more weeks on the one hand, but on the other you don't know for sure it will be certified? That's a little tough.
1. How long until you find out whether it will be certified?
2. How do you feel now? Can you bang out a solid 7-10 days of training before tapering starts? Because I think you should be in shape to run a solid marathon on the listed April 21st. But I'm not sure how your body is behaving.
Andy The rule of thumb, I think, is increase mileage 10% every other week. Just a rule of thumb. In my humble opinion, if you are on an easy run, coming towards the end of how long you initially planned it to be, and you feel good, legs feel good, got a solid rhythm going, then keep going for another couple miles. Why not take advantage, assuming you have the time? If you are in the middle of an easy run and you feel shitty, then cut it short.
Increase in volume should come from easy runs and long runs at first. Then once your body is used to the increased volume, you can start making your workouts longer.
Steve Why is there only a 40% chance of a good running day at Wellington? So you have 4 weeks until the original goal marathon right? And that one is a certified BQ course, but the one you are thinking about switching to would give you a few more weeks on the one hand, but on the other you don't know for sure it will be certified? That's a little tough. 1. How long until you find out whether it will be certified? 2. How do you feel now? Can you bang out a solid 7-10 days of training before tapering starts? Because I think you should be in shape to run a solid marathon on the listed April 21st. But I'm not sure how your body is behaving.
Wellington has over 50% of days with strong winds, and some of those days are close to hurricane force.
I worked out a plan last night after chatting with my partner and my coach. The main goal is a good marathon, BQ is the next goal. I won't be travelling to the US for a marathon without a good one under my belt. So it makes sense to stick with the race that gives me the best chance of that, which is Selwyn. Wellington's weather has the potential to blow up both goals with the wind. Selwyn has a decent chance of good weather for me, albeit pretty cold (as low as as 20F). If it turns out Selwyn isn't certified despite saying on the website "The Course is certified by a Certficated Road Race Course Measurer for World Athletics. Grade and certified in corporation with AIMS", then Dunedin in September is a back up option. Is certificated a word?
I don't feel confident about running a marathon in 4 weeks. I did some tempo work on Wednesday and it went okay but was more effort than I'd like. And breathing feels way more difficult than usual, even on an easy run.
Andy - I think you could increase more than the recommended amount if you slow it down a touch. It will use up a ton of time but can you make your easy pace 20-30 seconds slower per mile?
Steve - sucks that you're still feeling the aftereffects of the covid. I've got a tiny bit of lingering congestion but hit a good workout yesterday. My wife copped it though and still has a cough and occasional moments of breathlessness.
Andy - sorry to hear you got laid off. Tough times around some sectors at the moment.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
I can always rely on you to provide some very honest advice. I will check out the other responses tomorrow. RP should be a counselor with all the blunt advice for free....
Andy - Sorry to hear that, may you find something else quickly.
Re: mileage, why would you make any drastic changes to your training? I'd keep doing what you're doing and had planned. No sudden movements.
DW - Seeing as you can have a butler for the race, why waste them in simply being cup fetchers though? You may as well have them carry a backpack with useful things including water and your-preferred-drink bottles, maybe a packed meal from Chipotle + some candy in case you get hungry after the race, a couple of puke bags, gels, vaseline, a rain jacket in case it rains, also have them answer any calls you receive during the race (Hi, this is Ms Darkwave butler here, how may I be of assistance today?).
I mean, the list goes on and on.😁
RP assisting DW:
Well my 82 day running streak ends today. That might be my longest ever, no idea. P
I’ve noticed that my entire lower body is always in some kind of pain. It’s really noticeable when I do every day stuff like chasing kids or jogging across a road with the dog. My knees, hips, lower back and now the feet are always complaining.
I kept thinking it would improve when I lost some weight, but it’s not. I think arthritis plays a part. I can’t remember the last time I did a short burst of movement and didn’t hobble.
I was thinking about how I have to get up and warm up and stretch and do some drills before this 5k or I’m going to really suffer. It takes like 15 minutes before my knees and foot are ok. Contrasted against teenage me that didn’t warm up for anything longer than a mile, because it was so slow I could warm up during the race. Adults were always scolding me, if this is how they felt, it now makes sense.