Forums >Racing>2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks)
RP man fingers crossed. What about the police thing - not your thing?
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
Pain is my friend
Sorry late to the party. I’m still here but not much. I saw my name and had to say something. I would like to echo what everyone is saying. They are right on point. Even though I do crazy vert, I still run flat stuff. They go hand in hand. One helps the other one. My favorite is runable hills for miles. I train fast on a flat and my hill climbing gets better. I run hard on hills and my flat gets better. I have buddy’s that only climb. I can out climb them most days. Right now I am logging 2000-4000 ft of vert a week. My next race is 2.5 mile flat dirt loop for 48 hours. I goal is to not sleep and see how many miles I can run. I have never run that only. I’m making up the training as I go.
I imagine it's probably not worth it to log the crazy vert we see from someone like Krash, but I'm wondering if frequently logging something around 3,000 - 5,000 feet per week (or around 900 - 1500 meters) would be worth it?
ATY 24 141.445 2019 1st
Bear 100 22:08 2021
Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th
Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles
Bonnevile Backyard ultra
Ute 100 Aug
24 hour loop race?
Not an 80%er
Piwi - Yeah, I saw a dude dead lift 226kg, 500lbs and then run a sub 5 mile.I quickly get fed up with their antics though and never subscribe.
RP - Hoping whatever you have goes away quickly.Re: the interview, I'm not sure how it is in your area of expertise, at least in ITwe get used to rejection pretty fast.You're forced to have a pipeline of applications regardless if you have a job or not, justso at some point one job will accept you. Competition is brutal!Either way, you saw a problem and tried to fix it one way. Maybe that works.Maybe it does not, but now you're wiser and can try other things.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials)
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Well the Goat must've been hard work because my legs actually felt worse on Tuesday (3 days after the race, and after a day off) than they did during last Sunday's recovery run. Took a couple more days but back to normal-ish by the weekend. Bit more work to put in this week then next week is race week for Coatesville. All this hill work lately definitely seems to be paying off (to mmerkle's point) as hills that I've run probably hundreds of times are feeling easier than normal. I don't feel like there's a lot of speed in the legs but that's this week's problem.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Hot Weather Complainer
Flavio - Very wise words both on RP's job situation and topless people.
RP - grrr, so annoying when people turn up at work knowing they're sick especially when there are remote working options.
me - Pretty solid week geared around the Saturday long run with the big climb ("le Bastard" on Strava). It was warm when I woke up about 6am (24C) and by the time I got to the hills just after 8am it was 28C which is a bit high for a non-easy run for me. There's about 12km with a sharp drop, then some undulating hills before you get to le Bastard. I missed a turn to join a 3.5km coastal path which added some extra hills on the road and I was feeling it before I even got to the toughest part. I carried a 750ml bottle of electrolyte drink which I spent the first 45 minutes sipping. I definitely needed more but the only way I'd get it on this loop is by wearing a pack (yuck) or having a support crew. I also had 2 gels. I was having serious doubts about how I'd get back to the car but I hit the hill very slowly - after the first km with about 88 metres of elevation gain, there's a couple of easier km (58m and 41m) before a long steep climb for 3km (78m, 97m, 82m). There was a strong headwind for some of this, and then it was very hot in the sheltered stretches.
I was feeling as bad as I've ever felt during a run at times. Once you conquer le Bastard, there's about 8km back to the Sign of the Kiwi which is mostly undulating. Each small climb felt harder than the last, and on the last one I started fighting off cramp until I finished. I was close to vomiting at the end and desperately needed fluids. I went to the closest supermarket once I got to the flat and grabbed 2 powerades, and drank one while picking up a few other things, all the while worrying I was going to be sick inside. The girl at the checkout got a bit pissy when I handed her an empty bottle to scan and had very little sympathy when I told her I had no choice, I was close to death.
Anyway, there have been much more warm to hot days this summer than the last few years and they're all falling on my big days. Good training for sure, but I don't want to be going to the line so often. Definitely a discussion point for my catch up with my coach tomorrow.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Steve - I'm glad we're on the same page regarding topless topics."Le Bastard" is a fantastic name 😂It seems the summer is punishing you, but they say "heat is poor man's altitude training".
me - We're having some warm (for this time of the year) weather around here, just yesterday I was walking around in a short sleeve t-shirt as it was 20c and sunny (I'll intentionally not translate the temp so the 'muricans think I have a very high tolerance to cold).
Anyway, this was a slightly better week in that I didn't have to desperately take a day off. I still couldn't run Thursday's workout due to being exhausted. But I think I've figured this out a bit. I can't do a workout on Tuesday before the big Squat session. It's better to have just one, but good workout on Thursday morning.
Next week I'm hoping to do yet another 3000m time trial on Tuesday (This is short enough that the impact is negligible) and try again the one hour at marathon effort on Thursday.
M: 64'E
T: 80' with 3x (13'HMP + 4'E)
W: 51'E
T: 83' with 8'on 9'off 7'on 8'off 7'on (Originally this was supposed to be 60' @ marathon effort)
F: 51'E
S: 80'E
S: 2h20 long run
Totals: 9h09 107km 66 'muricans
Ash
Mark – Good that you are feeling recovered from and the benefit of all the hills.
Steve – Holy crap, that’s some bad luck with workout days and heat. Good to see you were back out there next day. Sounds like a good one for the memory bank, for when it gets tough as evidence that you’ve got the stuff to endure.
I continued to build mileage and had a bit more success dropping weight this week. I’ve gone low carb again as I know that I get less hungry which makes it so much easier. The first few weeks suck though, particularly long runs when the glycogen is all gone. I was wearing a continuous glucose monitor and had it as a data field on my garmin. It got critically low on Fridays long run simultaneous with perceived effort going through the roof, and I aborted. Will be interesting to do a bit more self experimentation with it.
Name
mi
km
Duration
Avg/mi
Avg/km
Elevation Gain
Evening Run
6.11
9.82
1:00:28
9:54
6:09
318
9.76
15.7
1:31:51
9:25
5:51
669
Mile warm up
1
1.61
0:08:15
8:15
5:07
30
26 min NOD
3.18
5.11
0:26:01
8:11
5:05
98
Wurundjeri Country
15.36
24.71
2:23:29
9:20
5:48
1532
Collendina-Ocean Grove SLSC
4.5
7.25
0:43:39
9:42
6:01
299
Wadawurrung Country
11.94
19.21
1:49:30
9:10
5:42
This week
52
83
8:03:13
3615
Last 4 Weeks
44
71
6:50
2850
Next: Ballarat, April 28, Pacing 3:50
Best: 5k 19:46 (Parkrun, 2016), 10k 40:37 (Track, 2022), Half 1:26:41 (2016), Full 3:00:23 (2021)
Dorothea
So, full disclosure, but I was not the most responsible person this week. My doctor put me in a knee-high boot on Monday when I went to see her. I had actually gone for my redeveloping PF, but while I was there asked about the Achilles, she said it was probably the Achilles that was making my heel hurt and wanted me to take 6 weeks off. I told her I can’t do that, and she said, alright, aggressive treatment: two weeks off, and the boot. But then I did run Tuesday anyway, because the plan, you know? Except I felt silly running on campus after wearing the boot all day there, so I refrained Wednesday. And I kind of liked how my Achilles and knee did feel better when I didn’t run, so I stuck to pool running again Friday. But I was signed up for the most expensive half of all time Sunday, and after testing the waters with a mostly pain-free shakeout run Saturday, decided to run it. As runners do, I rationalized it with the fact that I’m going to take a full week off. I hope I don’t regret it. My Achilles had a slight burning after mile 3 through the end and I stopped a few times to stretch and walk. It’s a little sore now, but not more than yesterday. My knee was pretty much okay.
I’d signed up for the race to begin with as a part of a bachelorette party for a friend, but over the course of the last weeks, my goal for this half shifted from a possible PR to an MP training run to just finishing it. I made sure to ask at the expo if there would be someone to pick runners up in case I decided to pull out early. My friend was going to shoot for a PR, so I thought I’d end up running alone after all, but she had a bad day with the weather (it was hot and humid; got to the mid-80s by the end) and I ended up catching her and running the last miles with her, so at least that mission was successful.
Oh, and I finally made it to the gym again. And I learned a bunch of exercises in my PT appointment (which annoyingly I don’t even know how much it costs me yet, flavio, because it was a %, not a flat co-pay) that are basically single-leg body-weight strength training. So hopefully continuing with that will lead to more positive results, soon.
Weekly for period: From: 01/22/2024 To 01/28/2024
Date
in ft
01/22
Windy Levee Run
10.01
16.10
1:28:38
08:51
05:30
7
01/23
Morning Run
9.83
53:36
08:46
05:27
177
01/24
Afternoon Pool Running + Swim + Weight Training
4.06
6.54
1:00:51 +4:12 +21:49
14:59
09:18
0
Evening Treadmill Run
2.01
3.24
18:10
09:02
05:36
01/26
Morning Pool Running + rehab work for Achilles and knee
4.01
6.44
1:01:15 +1:15:00
15:16
09:31
01/27
Shakeout and Strides
2.47
3.97
00:21:27
08:41
05:24
23
01/28
Warm up
1.40
2.25
00:12:52
09:11
05:43
Miami Half
13.32
21.44
01:49:06
08:11
05:05
Cool down
1.07
1.72
00:10:36
09:54
06:10
16
Totals: Time: 7:16:59 - 🦅Imperial: 44.2 mi - Metric: 71.13 km
Steve, I drank about 100-200mL at every mile today, so 2L does sound better than just 1.5. And I’ve done that with putting an empty bottle on the belt. The cashiers didn’t mind. I’m sure the store would rather you be honest that you are still paying for it rather than just walk out as though you’d brought it with you. I know you don't want to wear a hydration vest or something to make sure you’re well hydrated during your long run, but I really think it's the smarter choice. I can imagine you’re not just feeling terrible by the end… dehydration will linger on for the rest of the day, and sometimes even make you wake up with a hangover.
Mt79, +1000 on the “boring weeks are better than injury weeks.” I would say threshold is the comfortably hard… you shouldn’t have to focus too hard to get it, but you’re also not just aimlessly wandering… a clear path does seem better for them, though.
Dave, glad to read you could get a decent workout at the track last week! It’s Mondo or Tartan? Considering how icy it got up there, 100km is more than solid. I also don’t pay much mind to my running HR, because it’s wrist-based, which is less accurate. But I do track my RHR. I would imagine yours is pretty low!
Thanks for the good wishes, Marby. I don’t know how far I set back my healing today, but I also hope the down week + PT will leave me recovered/healed enough for the speedwork. Nice job getting that Parkrun in… always goof to surprise oneself a little. And congrats on the weight loss and solid increases in milage.
wcrunner, hope you could get more of those miles you were hoping for this week.
Flavio, I see. Glad you were feeling better this past week, though it sounds like you’re at one of those training plateaus. It’s tricky to not get into overtraining at this point, so it’s good you’re continuing to listen to your body and seeing where you may be over-exerting.
Re: 1003 club, everyone has a gimmick these days.
And I heard how warm it got in your parts this past week!! That’s quite something! And you can’t fool me… I know that you have the lowest tolerance to heat of anyone I know :-) Good luck in your TT.
Fishy, I agree. I can do fartlek or progression workouts on the treadmill. Easy runs get too boring and feel too hard… And I would imagine there’s still enough time left in the cycle to get those long runs. And yes, there’s always something to complain about--gym air conditioning is often still too warm.
Mark, I wonder if that 23-year-old will run down with the same speed when his knees start creaking and the consequences of falling seem much more apparent! It would be funny if he could see what his dad had run it at his age. Also, I too always wonder about living somewhere colder and then remember how nice it is not to worry about breaking an arm or leg when slipping on ice. My DOMS is usually worst from 48-72 hours… glad to read that you’re also human in that way, ha ha. Glad to read you’re almost back to normal… hope it’s something that becomes more and more true for your race next weekend.
Andy, there’s something to what you’re saying about making lots of turns—it strengthens things in the legs that help stabilize the straight running, too. It's why I also miss soccer.
Yeah, publish or perish is pretty stupid, RP. It also incentivizes plagiarism and shoddy research, which is also not the actual goal of science. If there were an alternative I enjoyed more out there, I would probably leave academia until the system sorted itself. I am also beyond thinking “I can change it from the inside” and probably in the phase of actually benefiting from it, which, if I think about it too much, I realize makes me complicit. Trying not to think about it too much, and when I do research, trying to do it right.
And yeah, running is pretty much my time-out activity. I do get told by friends/family that they can tell I need to just leave the house and go for a run. Usually it’s preceded by irrationality and a shouting match, and thankfully the older I get, the more I can catch it before it gets that far.
Darkwave, I’ve been trying to channel the zen you must have to do pool running for so long. Do you go in circles, or straight, or do you have a band that just stops you from moving forward?
Krash, when’s your next race? Is it your first 48-hour race? How do you NOT sleep and not get a heart attack from all the caffeine?!! Great to see you outside of the 2024 stuff, though :-)
Qualifications: I like to run. In Florida. In the summer. At noon.
Last race: May 27, Memorial Day 5K, 20:40.6. PR in not ideal conditions! A great way to start the summer.
Dorothea - You went from a moon boot at the start of the week to racing a half at the end??? I hope it doesn't come back and bite you, but I have to say, you're a lunatic in all the right ways.
I actually only had 0.75 litres - nowhere near enough in warm conditions over 2 hours 40. I couldn't even drink the water I left in the car for afterwards because it was too hot to drink. This is my only loop where I can't plan a pass or 2 of the car so if he sends me up there again and it's looking like a warm day I'll plan better. I did feel rough all day, and then just a couple of drinks was enough to make me a bit dusty on Sunday morning.
Marby - looks like you're building nicely for your pacing gig. Ballarat is a new race right? I imagine it has a hill or 2. Are you building towards October?
DK- Way to gut it out today!!
Happy to report this week is in the books. Had 2 treadmills workouts and the LR today. I've been fighting off a mild cold all week. Just congestion and full head really. No fever and not in the lungs at all so I ran through it.
Got another travel week with my daughter this week so no idea how the week will play out. Heading down to Tallahassee to visit FL State. Hope to get 2 good runs in down there.
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Mother of Cats
RP: I hope you feel better soon! I agree with the others - people who come to work (or to the gym, the pool, or a party) unnecessarily when they are sick make me really angry. It's one thing if you really do HAVE to come in - e.g., you are responsible for something that has to be done in person and you can't find someone to cover. But most of the cases I'm thinking of, it's more like "I just concentrate better in the office" or "I know that if I attend this yoga class, I'll feel better after."
Marky-Mark - your final sentence was interesting. I know that you are a speed-dominant runner - does it really only take a week to restore speed to your legs?
Steve - very interested to hear your coach's response, and whether he wants you to a) stick to the plan, b) adjust pace and/or disance, c) move the workout to another day, or d) something else
Marby - low carb training sounds awful.
DK Trotter - I go back and forth when pool-running (going in circles irritates my SI joint). Many times I have company, so it's just like a team long run. If I'm alone, I now wear bluetooth water proof headphones and listen to a podcast or music.
Fishy - safe travels.
FLavio - I find it fascinating that you recover from a 3000m time trial so quickly, but a half-marathon pace workout plus squats takes so much out of you. I'm the complete inverse.
***
Me: 50 miles and 3 hours of pool-running
M: 90 minutes pool-runningT: 9 miles on treadmill, with 12x90 seconds on/60 seconds off (on was 8.5-8.7 mph, off was 6 mph), followed with leg strengthwork.W: 7 miles very easy (9:39), drills, upperbody strength/core, and 2 miles very easy home (9:51)Th: 90 minutes pool-running in morning, streaming pilates in evening.F: 10 miles, including track workout of 3200, 1600 in 14:37 (7:20/7:17) and 7:10, with 5:17 recovery between the two. Followed with four short hill sprints and leg strengthwork.Sa: 8 miles very easy on towpath (9:42) and streaming pilates.Su: 14 miles, first 6 easy (9:37) and next 8 moderate (8:19) over hills. Followed with leg strengthwork.
I returned to focused training this week, trying to reestablish my routines from the last training cycle. Tuesday was on the treadmill (again) mostly because I slept in and didn't have time to drive somewhere ice free.
By Friday, it was a ridiculous 60 degrees (F), so I returned to the track for a tempo intervals workout that felt a bit tough (first continuous hard running in a while). Saturday I did 8 miles on the towpath as a quick re-introduction to trail running (the towpath is essentially a very easy/flat version of trail-running).
Since it's been about 5 weeks since I've done any sort of long run, I decided to skip the traditional progressive long run in favor of getting 14 miles in. Since I had originally been thinking about doing Iwo Jima hills instead of a long run, I opted to do the last 6 miles of the run as loops of the Iwo Jima hill at moderate effort (I did do a "stride" downhill at marathon effort each loop). It felt like a good way to ease back into marathon training.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Are we there, yet?
Krash: Will that be your first 48 hour?
flavio: Those lift and run combos need to take account of body weight. Back when I weighed a mere 128 lbs, I could leg press 275 lbs, bench press 145 lbs (5x, don't know what max would have been), and not sure what I could have done with a dead lift. And ran a 4:41 road mile.
Dorothea: careful with the Achilles! Last year I had to wear an ankle brace for a month and was restricted to walking because of a torn tendon. While frustrating, it did solve the problem.
Snow is gone and temps are back to normal. Much better week with a couple really good runs:
M: Rest, didn't feel up to running after a dentist appointmentT: 4.1 miles, long recovery run-walk with strides
W: 5.5 miles, 30:00 warm up, 5 x (450m, 450m jog-walk recovery), getting closer to interval pace, jog-walk cool downT: 3.3 miles, recovery run-walk F: 3.2 miles, recovery run-walk with stridesS: 6.4 miles, 30:00 warm up, 5 x (.4 mile, .4 mile jog-walk recovery), closer to tempo pace, jog-walk cool downS: 3.0 miles, recovery run-walk
Weekly total: 25.5 miles / 41.0 km
Able to increase the running duration on the Wednesday and Saturday workouts. Planning to try back to back "long" runs this week for the first time since last summer.
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09 06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.
Just had a chat with the coach - he said every single person in the group, including him, got cooked on Saturday and I was probably the most impacted given I was unsupported and couldn't set up laps or out and backs. He did say he would have been fine if I'd decided to just run for a similar time on the flat - if I had my time again, knowing what I know, that's what I'd do. But I probably needed to learn that lesson in order to do that in the future, so even if he'd given me a call and told me it was an option, I probably would have backed myself to do it. But I won't next time.
Krash You should stop by more often. Nice to hear from you.
RP Running long and outside seems (seemED I hope) to be the activity that irritates it the most. Running long on the treadmill didn't bother it, running fast on the track didn't either. I am going to keep strengthening it and doing the funny stretch. I think the muscles that support it just need to get stronger.
Steve Three weeks out from the JFK 50 I did a long run very similar to yours although the temp for mine was slightly cooler. Roughly the same distance and roughly the same vert and roughly the same time. It was a tough one. Nicely done toughing it out. I think you're in great shape.
dktrotter Late summer / early fall of 2021 I had an achilles issue where it would feel stiff during and after running and my ankle mobility was noticably worse on that side. My dorsiflexion was awkward and weak compared to the other side. Checking my log, it looks like I took 2 weeks completely off from running, but supplemented that with bike and elliptical. Then I was able to start getting back into it where for another couple weeks I ran a few days a week and cross trained the other days, and the setback wasn't that bad regarding speed. At the time I remember being miserable though. Each case is different but I figured I'd just share that with you in case it helps.
wcrunner Glad you're able to start doing workouts.
Steve/Mark/piwi/other Kiwis One of my previous students visited New Zealand and brought me back that chocolate with pear in it. It's amazing.
My Week
No issues this week. Included 4 miles at marathon goal pace during my medium LR. They felt ok but not as easy as I need that pace to feel. I still have time to work with so I'm just going to stay patient for now. Also it was abnormally warm that day.
darkwave I pulled the trigger and signed up for the By George 10k. It just occurred to me that I have not raced anything shorter than a marathon since August, and I do not want the 10 miler to be my rust buster. I hope to see you there.
Marby - Are you diabetic ?I ask because there's plenty of people in my family with diabetes and I monitor my glycated haemoglobin at least once a year to keep it a bay. It's been steady at 5.5, still not in the red zone but it won't go down either. I had that similar experience of perceived effort sky high at the tail end of long runs and last Thursday, as well as during my last marathon though that might be due to being out of shape for a sub 3 attempt.
DK - Oddly enough I do have a good tolerance to warm weather, though I obviously will run slower if it's hot.It's the sun rays that wreck me.
DW - Yeah, 8 miles at MP is worse than 2 miles at 5k pace for me. I guess I'm at the speed end of the spectrum, except I'm not fast LOL
WC - Yup, body weight is often taken in consideration for anything pertaining to weight lifting.It's fair to say that you could easily squat twice your body weight, though some like to say it's a bare minimum, I see it as a big accomplishment.
I'm curious if there's a table out there comparing squat numbers to a 5k race in terms of percentage of the population that achieves it.