Forums >Racing>2023 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
Hot Weather Complainer
Rune and Mick - great to see you both here again, reminds me of when I first joined!
James and watson - nice weeks.
me - This was my "testing week" to get an HR threshold check and this coming week is the start of base building. Nothing too crazy to start with, just adding in some easy miles with a Thursday double and some 7 days weeks of running. There's a long time to go though.
Foster Park Run 5km Race Report
This is a line in the sand race to see where I'm at after 2 months of pretty easy running after the half-marathon in Melbourne. Not too much speed work beforehand but enough to wake up my legs. I went with Foster Park because it's all on paths, unlike Hagley (which means slippery mud after the rain on Friday) and it never measures short. Unfortunately it always measures long, 5.08km the first time I did it. I decided to try and go out around 3:40-45 and try and kick home, knowing to PR I'd need to run significantly faster than I did in the PR race because of the course anomalies. 3:38/km would give me the "official" PR and I knew this was a stretch.
When I was warming up I saw Hannah, a Park Run legend and world record holder for the most wins by gender, although she probably holds it for overall wins too. She won the Queenstown marathon 7 days ago so I was surprised to see her there and thought maybe she'd be a bit off her 17:12 Park Run PR. She was with a guy who looked fast too so I knew there would be some to chase in this largely social event.
The race director made a touching speech about one of the regulars who lost his wife recently, at the young age of 51, and I admit I felt a bit emotional when he ran up on the platform and hugged the race director. A very nice moment, then I realised I had to race in about 1 minute so better get out of that mindset.
Over to the start and a countdown from 5 and we're off on the 2 lap course plus small doglegs at the start and finish. Hannah and her friend are just in front, having a chat and they look like they're jogging so I just tuck in behind. It doesn't feel fast, although at 800 metres they start to open it up a bit and slowly pull away. I hear loud footsteps behind me so expect to be passed but the sound quickly disappears and I settle into third for a largely solo run from the 1km mark. That flashes up in 3:37 and I feel slightly alarmed - the early pace from the first 2 was deceptive. I feel okay though and decide to consolidate for the next km. The first 2 have moved comfortably clear and I only see them on the longer straights now. The second km is 3:46 which surprises me a bit - I didn't think I'd adjusted that much and it crossed my mind that first km may have cooked me. Maybe it was GPS because the pace from there was consistent but didn't feel much different. I start the second lap which is a psychological boost because from 2 - 2.5km I was having negative thoughts about how gassed I felt so early.
I feel like I'm in a good rhythm now and 3km flashes up in 3:33 which is another eyebrow raiser. I'm not sure if I can hang on but I know unless I completely fall to pieces a PR is there for the taking. With a mile to go I start passing the walkers and slower runners who give plenty of encouragement, and are very courteous by moving over to the side of the path. At the end of the long straight I turn in the direction of the finish, see my watch still says 3:35 pace so I try and remove all negative thoughts and just work for it. 4km flashes up in 3:38 and I'm hurting and gasping for air at this point. I continue telling myself it's less than 4 minutes of pain to go, and glory awaits if I'm willing to earn it. Through the trees and into the other side of the park and I see Hannah (and Chris - the other guy) off in the distance. 2 corners left and there's 400 metres to go - I think back to when I paced the half (which finished in this park) 2 weeks ago and I said to the girl next to me "that's one lap of the track, it's nothing" and realised that may have helped her or may have annoyed her because the way I was feeling now, that seemed a long way. This was good hurting though, not the crashing and burning hurting. It's just a matter of hanging on and 5km flashes up in 3:34 before I even make the last turn into the last 100 metres or so. After the turn I see my watch says 18:21 so I know 18:30 is out but I really empty the tank now, to make sure I sneak under the previous PR of 18:40. Through the finish in 18:34 and there is intense pain for 30 seconds then I feel okay, really quick. Got to love the 5km for short lived pain.
Really happy with this result, and it's a way better run than my Hagley PR of 18:40 - the course lengths mean that was a pace of 3:45/km, this is 3:37/km for only a 6 second PR, and GPS says 5.13km. I went through 5km according to GPS in 18:05 - I couldn't actually break 18 could I? Maybe on the right day with some more speed training. Incidentally, Hannah ran 17:30 which is crazy close to PR pace so soon after a marathon. Chris ran 17:50 for a PR (after over 100 Park Runs). 4th place finished exactly 2 minutes behind me, so it was very much a solo race.
<caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Mother of Cats
Steve - congratulations on a great race and a great race report. I think you can get that down a lot lower if you can get into a race with some competition.
Watson - I did not know that 30K pace was a thing, but I guess it is. Somewhere between half-marathon and marathon pace, I guess?
James - 13 halves is a LOT to choose from. Are any of those One City or Shamrock in SE Virginia? Those are both great races, though potentially a bit cold for your liking.
Marky_Mark - always amusing to see you guys complaining about summer just as I'm starting to complain about winter. Or vice versa.
Rune- welcome back. You could have hung out anyway, y'know.
Mick - threshold miles are fun?
Half-Crazy- Hope you've still avoided Covid.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Week 1:44 miles running, 500 yards swimming, and 90 minutes pool-running.M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yogaT: 9 miles, including a track workout of 6x800 in 3:25, 3:22, 3:16, 3:16, 3:15, 3:13 (recoveries of 3:00-3:13). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimmingW: 8.5 miles very easy (9:27) including some grass running and drills/strides, and upper body weights/coreTh: 7 miles trail-running (9:50)F: 3 miles very easy (9:27)Sa: 10 miles, including an 8K race in 36:19.Su: 6.5 miles (9:32) running around cheering at the Philadelphia Marathon.
Week 2:60 miles running, 1000 yards swimming, and 3 hours pool-running.M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yogaT: 10 miles very easy (9:27) including some grass running and drills/strides, and upper body weights/core.W: 9 miles, including a track workout of 3x3200 in 14:17 (7:10/7:07), 14:17 (7:09/7:08), and 14:14 (7:09/7:05) (recoveries of 5:00-5:13). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimmingTh: 8 miles trail-running (10:04) and streaming pilates.F: 10 miles very easy (9:33) to gym, including some grass running and drills/strides, upper body weights/core, and then 2 miles very easy home (9:30)Sa: 18 miles progressive, split as the first 5 miles averaging 9:37 pace, the next 5 miles averaging 8:29 pace, and then the last 8 miles averaging 7:42 pace. Injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming after.Su: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga
Since I didn't post last week, I'll do two weeks today.
Essentially last week was a down week with a trip up to Philly to race the 8K and cheer at the marathon; this week was a return to marathon training.
Both weeks were unremarkable other than that all of my workouts and races were considerably slower than my training from a few weeks before - by about 20 seconds a mile. I also started a small dose of the medication Lexapro on Sunday two weeks ago, and I'm certain the two points are related.
(I'm taking the Lexapro off-label to try to dampen some annoyingly overactive reflexes - one of my neuro issues)
I've heard that often it takes a few weeks to adjust to Lexapro, so I'm giving this some time. Since I train by effort I'm not worried about running myself into the ground trying to run my old paces while I'm adjusting. In the meantime, the Lexapro is really helping the overactive reflexes, so this will all be worth it as long as my body eventually adjusts.
JamesD
No, they're all within 5 hours drive, so 3 in western South Carolina, 5 in Georgia, and 5 in northern Florida. I expect that the temperatures will be too cold for me at at least 10 of them, so it's mostly a matter of watching the weather forecasts and waiting for a warm front. Have made cancellable hotel reservations at Jekyll Island in January since there's only one hotel near the race start/finish, but wind and lack of people around my pace may be issues.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
30k Pace is only for the cool kids
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
I've been doing my training a bit different recently. I've always found it difficult to not burn out with workouts.
There's a great thread of Let's Run where a guy that was a ~19 min 5km guy plataued with a traditional VO2 max, tempo, long run plus easy approach, and took a cut-down Norwegian approach, and did 3 sub threshold workouts a week, plus easy. So the workouts are medium hard, but not really hard. The original poster is now low 16's in the 5km.
I've been trying it a few weeks now, and am finding it quite enjoyable.
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=12130781&page=69
I realize there's some terrible threads there too, but it really is a great thread.
I have a 5k ParkRun this Saturday. So, that will be interesting to see how the training results in the ParkRun. My best time this year is 20:34 which is pretty slow, the course if probably 30s slower than a quick course due to it being windy, two 180's, and ~1km on gravel.
Steve - nice RR and another PR! You're having a great 2023.
Waltons ThreadLord
Watson - Thanks for sharing the link. After months of marathon training, I'm finding a routine with less structure and fewer workouts to be refreshing not only physically, but mentally.
Darkwave - Are the slower workouts by design or a result of other factors?
Steve - Congratulations on the new PR! Thanks for the race report; it was a fun read.
James - I guess halves are more popular in NJ. During my quest to run all the ones in the state, I did 27 distinct races (granted a good number no longer exists), though not all were flat. Still, nowhere in NJ is 5 hours from anywhere else. (And if you throw in NYC, there are even more to choose from.) How many do you plan to run in the first four months of next year? Good luck with the training.
Mark - Nice job getting over 4,000km. We had a cold shift, but for us that signals the approach of winter. Still, I know what you mean about that last cool breath of spring before the hot days arrive.
Rune - I guess I arrived here while you were away. I look forward to seeing your posts.
Mick - Yeah, what's with the gardening not posting? As long as you're enjoying it, mild weeks are fine.
Kathi - Sorry you were dragging. I know what you mean about the time change; it's been three weeks and I'm still waking up early.
I had a mostly uneventful week. Easy runs, a special, Thanksgiving edition of ParkRun at about 85% effort, but also a 5M race that went really well (report to follow separately). It took 10 days after her first positive test, but DW finally tested negative for Covid on Saturday. Both of my sons have colds, but have consistently tested negative. DW and one son missed the family Thanksgiving get-together. I seem to be the only healthy one in the household at the moment (knock on wood) which comes with stress of it's own. 29.1 miles / 46.8 km / 4:39:04
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Running is Back 10k, 5/12; Greta's Run 5k, 5/19
Westfield Turkey Trot 5M - 11/25/23
Today was my 10th running of this race, if you count the virtual edition from 2020, and all 10 have been consecutive. Other than 1 NYRR 5-miler, this is the only 5-mile race I've ever run (the distance is not common where I live). Every time I've run this race, I've set a new personal best for the distance with the exception of 2016, when I ran it six days after completing my first marathon (Philadelphia). Early on, my improvements were measured in minutes, but lately the margin has been getting smaller. Last year, I took my best down by 27 seconds, from 39:24 to 38:57.
I met my RP at the race and we ran a warmup mile together. I told him I had no idea what to expect as I'd been running my recent 5k ParkRuns at less than full effort and it had been almost 6 months since I ran anything faster than an 8:00/mile pace. It was a cool day with the temperature in the upper 30's (2-3C) but there was no wind and the sun was shining while we did our warmup. I was in long sleeves for the warmup, but decided to go to short sleeves (plus gloves and winter headband covering the ears) for the race while RP stayed in his tights, shorts, thermal long-sleeved quarter zip (probably with short sleeves underneath), gloves, and cap - we were quite a mismatched pair. Happily, DW was there to support me and I was able to keep my NYCM fleece-lined poncho on until less than five minutes before the start, at which point the temp was up to 38º (3C) but clouds were now scattered in the sky so the sun wasn't warming us as much. RP and I wished each other luck (after having done the same for a woman who we'd seen several times during our track work and whose goal was to win the women's race after placing 2nd last year) and the race was off. The skin on my arms was cold for the first couple of miles, but by the end they were warm and my brow was dripping sweat, so I'd made the right clothing choice for me.
As usual, I got off a bit fast, but unusually I managed to settle down sooner. The first half mile includes a shallow double-S turn and I was one of a handful running the tangents effectively while most of the pack ran the full curves. To get a PR, I knew I'd need to average 7:48 miles. Since my pacing in the past hasn't been the best, I decided not to memorize past years' splits, but just to target a 7:48 average. At the one mile mark I had run a 7:41, so I had 7 seconds in the bank. By this point, I'd noticed a little kid in an orange shirt who was running about my pace despite being roughly half my height and 10 years old. I also spotted a tall teenager all in blue. The 10-year old was holding the pace well through miles two, while the fellow in blue was struggling to keep a steady pace, constantly slowing down and speeding up. The first mile is in the park, but most of the second mile is out in the streets. I finished the second one in 7:45, so now I was up by 10 seconds.
The race is mostly flat, with no hills to speak of, but there are inclines you notice and an overall elevation gain/loss. The third mile ends at the highest point of the race and it's good to know it will be a downhill race from there. I had passed the 10-year-old during the third mile (he'd finish in 39:20 gun time so probably a little faster) and was alternately shadowing or passing the guy in blue, mostly because he kept surging and fading, surging and fading. By this point, my legs were starting to hurt, which I know is par for this course. At the third mile mark, my watch registered a 7:47, so I'd banked another second and was up to 11 seconds ahead of pace. The fourth mile was hard for me. The guy in blue was by now talking to himself a lot, saying things like "keep pushing" and "go on." About halfway through the fourth mile, during one of the times we were side by side, I told him "you've got this" and he repeated it right back to me; it became a greeting as we continued to trade places. Eventually, he stopped catching up to me after I passed him again. I finished mile 4 in 7:57, using up 9 of my 11 seconds. Worse, I'd just run by far the slowest mile of the race despite it being mostly flat/downhill and was wondering whether I was "done." I decided not to worry about it and figured worst case I'd at least go sub-40, which I'd be happy with.
Nevertheless, I kept pushing myself but without worrying about my pace. About ¼ of the way into the final mile I heard "You've got this!" as the guy in blue caught up to me and passed me. I gave him a shout and was grateful for his enthusiasm. (He also rallied a friend who had started walking.) Back in the park, we had to run the shallow double-S and again I was running the tangents while most are running the road, but despite that I was being passed by more people than I was passing, which made me think I must have been slowing, but it turned out many were people who'd run too conservatively and had too much left. I got to the final 200 yards and was running hard, though I felt I had no kick. People were still passing me at speed, but DW said she'd rarely seen me running so fast at the end of that race. I knew sub-40 was easily in the bag, but when I stopped my watch I saw I'd run sub-39. I wasn't sure of what my PR was, but I dared to hope, so I retrieved my phone from DW and saw somehow I'd managed to throw down a 7:45 final mile to get a 2-second improvement on my PR! I was absolutely thrilled, not just to get a PR but because it came as such a surprise.
I found the guy in blue and we congratulated each other (and when I saw him talking to his parents about how he struggled in the race, I mentioned that he did a great job of never giving up). I also spotted the 10 year old and his parents (who also ran, but much slower) and congratulated him on his race. RP had a good race too, but his PR is from more than a decade ago when he was much faster; still he was happy with sub 38:30 (I only have his gun time). The woman from the track improved her time from last year, but finished 3rd (you can't control who races - I was faster this year, but went from 5th in AG last year to 9th this year). In the end, it seems I compensated for my lack of speed training with all the endurance I built up during marathon training; I may not have run as fast during training, but I ran a lot further over the past several months. Now I have a year before I can take my next shot at this distance and my new record of 38:55..
At most, if the weather cooperates and I stay healthy, I'll do one half before summer. It takes me a long time to peak for and recover from halves, and I've only once ever done more than one in a year. There are a decent number of halves in Georgia (the list I use shows 31 in Oct/Nov/Dec), but I'm not considering any of the ones in Atlanta or points north, as they're too hilly for a good time. I'm also ignoring the smaller or more social ones where there's not likely to be anyone for me to run with.
Congrats on the race and the new PR. Setting a new PR in 8 races over 9 years is really impressive. We only have one 5-mile race around here, but it's a bit different from yours; our Heat Wave race in early July usually features both temperatures and dew points over 80. I wouldn't run a race as cold as yours, and if for some reason I did I'd wear more layers than your RP did.
watson - Thanks! It will be interesting to see if you get a pay off. You're easily sub 20 with room to spare when in shape so I think you'll go sub 20 on the harder course. Unless this approach doesn't agree with you but I don't see why that would be the case.
Fred - Congrats on the PR! 2 seconds, without knowing your PR is very exciting. If you'd known what was required in that last mile, would it have made a difference?
Thanks. As to your question - tough to say. Maybe it would have given me a bit more adrenaline for a final push. I knew roughly were I was in terms of what average pace I needed so I think that ignoring my watch for the last mile, especially as it often lags in updating my pace on turns, was probably the best thing for me.
Watson - there's a lot to be said for the mindset that Steve Magness talks about... "Run, mostly easy, occasionally hard, vary it up, and very seldom, go see God". The danger of thinking you have to be smashing race pace workouts in training is that you end up running your race in training.
Fred - 10x running a race... wow. I haven't run any individual event more than 5x I don't think. I'll hit 5 for Omaha HM this Sunday as well. Congrats on the PR!
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
My week:
Monday 20 minutes easy (treadmill)
Tuesday 6 easy
Wednesday am 6 with 5x3 min + 3 x 2min pm strength training
Thursday am 3 miles
Friday 4 miles
Saturday 6 miles + strength training
Sunday rest--short core workout
Pretty sure I just killed my treadmill. I started to smell burning rubber, so unplugged it and sat downstairs watching it to make sure it didn't burst into flames. It was free and lasted 10 years. Now need to quickly figure out what to buy. The last 2 were from an old neighbor who asked DH for help taking his old treadmill to the dump. Each time, it wound up in our basement. The first one didn't last long. Unfortunately that neighbor moved.
Mark, it's the opposite here. Tomorrow's weather is going to be welcome to winter.
JamesD, that sounds like a pretty good number of choices.
Watson, I tried reading through the let's run thread and got lost. It looked like there was also some talk in there about power?
Steve, congrats on the 5k.
Darkwave, CVS came be so convenient. There is one a block away from work and I wind up going there every so often for something last second. Another odd one, last year I got some really nice light gloves at Safeway of all places. And they were only $2.
Fred, there seem to be more HMs in NJ than MD. I tend to look at MD, DE and NJ near the beaches. Hope you stay covid free. One thing about cold symptoms & negative tests....I heard our department's infection control person talking about how with a number of our work cases, people don't test positive until 4 or 5 days in. Nice job on the race & PR.
Half - there's a bit of noise to shuffle through on that thread. I read it several times. There were some irrelevant tangents of pace v heart rate v power. Simplified below:
- Run 2 to 3 sub threshold workouts a week.
- The above must be SUB threshold. So the intervals are much easier than what someone COULD do.
- All other running is slow (e.g. Daniel's easy).
- So you end up with a significant volume of moderate intensity with as much easy running on top.
- NO genuine hard workouts.
- Race occasionally to track gains, and then adjust paces based of the race.