Forums >Racing>Goal of sub 1:40 half.
ok so at first blush i thought the following was 1 workout:
1x3200 at 10k pace, 5-minute recovery
2x1600 at 5k pace, 3-minute recoveries
2x800 at 3k pace, 3-minute recoveries
6x1000 at 10k pace, half-time recoverie
Yowzers, than i figured out what was going on....sanity restored.
Dakota for the recoveries would that just be slow jogging or walking?
I know roughly what my OMG, 5k pace, LT pace, MP, and easy pace are... I run mostly by feel. I call those "throw up hard", "hard", "comfortably hard", "MP", and "easy". I can also go pokier than easy if I so choose.
I suspect that my 10k pace and half pace differ by more than 10 seconds, so I suppose I could fudge my way into "10 seconds faster than half" pace and it would be different from the two race paces. I guess. But that makes my eyes glaze over. I can't keep track of all that, except maybe on a track if I took the time to convert it to 400 lap pace. And if I wore a garmin and it told me that my pace is 7:02, I'm not sure if that would be 'right' for that day anyway. Or even accurate for that moment.
Anyway, 2x6 miles at faster than half marathon pace is a bit of a puzzler. Maybe that was based on a half from some months ago and the theory is that you've improved and therefore your current half pace is actually faster. I dunno. But if my half pace means the pace I could run 13.1 smartly with little left at the end, then trying to run 12 miles 2 whole minutes (120 seconds) faster would be one asskicker of a workout. If I could even do it. I hope that only appears ONCE in the plan with a whole lot of easy running around it.
As for the long run, my long run is indeed a quality workout. But it kind of depends on how we are defining the terms "long run" and "quality workout". It also, of course, depends on MPW. At 85 mpw, a 10 miler is simply not the same deal on my body as a 10 miler at 35 mpw.
All that said, my two most recent half PRs came during training cycles where I mixed up LT runs and 800s run at my "hard" pace. Is that "the best" way? Eh, I dunno. I PRed.
This cycle, the plan was to do lots of LT until the last month and then mix in differing ladders of 400s, 800s, and 1600s. Plus a lot more strides than I ever did before. But alas, I got sidetracked for reasons unassociated with my running.
Ok then.
Point being: I can't keep track of all those paces, so I don't.
Prince of Fatness
Mr. PH, I think we agree, actually. ....... I do think intervals are important, though, especially after you've already knocked a good chunk off your PR and you're looking to cut even more time.
We definitely agree, and I think that your last sentence is the key. I could see that if I come to a point where my half time plateaus that I would want to throw in some intervals. That just hasn't happened yet.
Not at it at all.
Right on Hereford...
ok so at first blush i thought the following was 1 workout: 1x3200 at 10k pace, 5-minute recovery 2x1600 at 5k pace, 3-minute recoveries 2x800 at 3k pace, 3-minute recoveries 6x1000 at 10k pace, half-time recoverie Yowzers, than i figured out what was going on....sanity restored. Dakota for the recoveries would that just be slow jogging or walking?
Yeah, the first three are part of the "big workout," and the 6x1000 is its own separate workout the next week.
About the recoveries, I would usually jog a slow 200 and then stand or walk a bit until the recovery time was up. The first couple times I did the big workouts, I don't even think I jogged at all between intervals. I needed all the rest I could get, just to make it through the workout.
By the way, here is a link to the program if anyone else wants to use it:
http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-238-244-258-12006-0,00.html
Maybe it has been all the talk about quality runs/ speed sessions, etc. but have had probably two of my best training runs back to back the last two days.
Coming off 5 mile race PR Sunday thought might have some dead legs this week but things have been nice:
Mon -- Rest
Tue -- Planned 6 mile Easy (for me generally 9:15 - 9:30 depending on conditions, how I feel etc). Everything felt great and started 9:15 pace and just kept getting faster and ended my Easy run at 8:43 pace with a 8:20 Last Mile with about 5 - 6 strides. Did not log as tempo as usually define runs as what I intended to do versus what happens, but did upgrade to medium.
Wed -- have been slacking a bit on Long Run length due to weekend shorter races, so today planned 11 mile run and not real set time but would be happy if 9:30 felt good and really just wanted to get the distance since after sundays summer 5 mile target race I am official on the Marathon clock. Went out first few miles @ 9:15ish pace so that would be the target, as usually after I settle in with what feels like an easy pace for that day I try to hold for the run. Miles 4 - 8 actually kicked it up a little and dropped overall pace to 9:05 (pacing a few groups a HS Gilrs CC teams helped a bit you know gotta look good.) Miles 8 - 10 were slowing a bit and overall pace dropped to 9:10 as legs were feeling tired after 6 miler yesterday and now approaching Long distance of the season. Last mile picked up the pace and finished run in 9:07 pace and last mile was 8:30 with some hard effort strides (not that they were planned hard , but it was hard to do them with dead legs).
Will probbaly dial it down rest of week for a little mini taper before sundays 5 mile race. Original target when I laid out plan a few months ago was 37:30 (7:30 pace), but I am pretty sure I can do more, but not sure how much to push it. Do i want to run a good 7:20 -7:30 pace and successful pace but maybe feel I left some on the course or push 7:10 and risk an implosion?? May wait for race day conditions to decide but leaning for faster goal as last Sundays race they had pretty steap hill and was gassed at 2 mile mark but learned i can recover on the fly at 7:30 - 7:45 pace as slowly got back to normal race state over next two miles. So no speedworkIntervals this week but hope to run one hell of a fast "tempo" session Sunday!
"It's supposed to be hard. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. The hard... is what makes it Great!
Suspect Zero
Ok, I've got a 10k next month on the 8th that I'm going to use to judge fitness. I haven't raced a 10k in a long, long time. A 1:40 HM is about a 45 min 10k.
Plan A: Target a 45 min 10k from the start. Hold on for as long as I can. If I make it, that's great news. If not, take note of how long I was able to hold on.
Plan B: Just run the stupid thing the best I can.
Obviously plan B is ideal, but I haven't raced one in so long I'm not sure how it's supposed to feel. I think in some cases it's ok to target a pace likely to cause implosion (obviously not on a goal race). It gives an opportunity to become accustomed to racing pain and heck, I might surprise myself. What are your thoughts?
Goal HM is September 26th.
Matty sorry it didn't work out, thought you had it in the bag judging by the 2 12 milers you did earlier.
Mr I - I think a combo works the best. Shoot for a 4:30 km for the 1st k to make sure you don't go out too fast. Then I would run by feel. On Friday I ran a 5km and the plan was to run 4:15/km. Well as it turned out I could have ran a lot faster than that. I should have clued in at the 1/2 way point when I felt great but I didn't and it cost me a sub 21:00.
Mr. I, Where do you think that you are now? The reason I ask is because you have 7 weeks between races. You still have 4 to 5 weeks of solid training left after the race. I think that you have a shot at 1:40, but will need to put some work in to get there, which means a 45 minute 10K may be an aggressive goal now.
My suggestion would be to take your best guess at your current fitness level and pace the 10K accordingly.
I have been watching this thread, with my hand poised on the brim of my hat for a while now. That whooshing noise is the hat sailing off my head and into the ring with the rest of yours.
I'm 41, have never run a 1/2 (in fact until Sunday I had never run 10 miles), but I am talking myself into shooting for 1:40 this fall (more realistically 1:45). My target race is the nice, flat Canada Army Run in Ottawa on September 20.
I run 4X weekly, two easy runs, a tempo or speed session, and a long run. My long run is at 16k (10 miles) and I figure it will top out at about 22-24 km (14-15 miles) in early September. My mileage has been building up over the summer (close to 40km -- 25-26 miles -- last week), though it is certainly light compared to what most of the people posting in this thread seem to do. I worry about staying injury free, given that I am ramping up a bit quicker maybe than some recommend -- though that is why I am going to stick with three days rest.
I ran a 48:27 10K in June on a dead flat course, but I don't know how accurate a measure that was, since I went in thinking I would sort of treat it as as a long run but then ended up running the back half pretty fast for me. I am running a 10K on August 3 (in Regent's Park, while I am on holiday in England!) so I think I will have a decent picture of where I am after that race.
EL
Nice to see there is still quite a bit of activity on the thread.
EDL, glad you joined us, nice to have a fellow-Canadian.
Matthew, sorry to hear you didn't quite make it, I am sure you will next time.
Mr.I, my recent 10k was 46:23, it is possible I "settled" for running behind a guy I should really have pushed past, might have saved 30 seconds. That course was point to point, once for 5k, twice for 10k, with very tight corners where you turned around, which slowed things down a little. Also the finish was hidden by some trees and a small rise; it sounds silly but being able to see the finish line is a big motivating factor in the last kilometer ( for me anyway!).
I am tempted to trust in running my half in 1:40 or less, and just trying to hit my 5k splits even if I feel bad.I usually find if I am going too fast it takes about 3 minutes for my breathing rate to increase significantly, if its quicker than that I am way off pace. The trick is to find what breathing rate, and therefore running effort, you can maintain for 5-10 kilometers.
I had some fatigue and assorted aches and pains so lost two runs, only did 28 miles this week, so will repeat the week.
PBs since age 60: 5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.
10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.
... with very tight corners where you turned around, which slowed things down a little. ...
... with very tight corners where you turned around, which slowed things down a little.
...
Side note: On pin turns like that, I've read that taking it a little wide, but throwing a surge while doing so is better than taking the turn really tight which basically causes you to stop, change directions and get going again. I've tried it in two races and it seems to work pretty well.
EDL: Welcome and good luck. You've got a good jump on your training.
Good tip on the tight corners- that just had not occurred to me somehow.
Training went well this week, 78kms. (about 48.5 miles) my best week so far.
Simon.