Login

Goal of sub 19 minute 5k (Read 2820 times)

Ham & Egger
Quote from Jim24315 on 7/26/2008 at 10:52 PM:
Welcome back Tusca,

Long time, no see. It's great to see that you are putting in some nice mileage once again.


Hey Jim, yeah. it's been a while. I was stupid last summer and pretended I was Brian Sell and could run 110 mile weeks, neglecting the fact I at the time ran 17 5k and he a 14 5k...I was injured for 3 months. Then Spring I worked under a coach and had some awesome track workouts, but I wound up flat at the races. To his credit, he taught me a lot about patience and *when* to crank things up--but I just don't do well on mild mileage and lots of track work. Now I'm going back to what has worked with a humble appreciation of limits and going to crank up for a Fall marathon I think.

Seems like you and the former CR crew are doing well on this board. I do miss the Comp Wire though...where's Laker when you need him?
www.tuscaloosarunner.blogspot.com
Quote from tuscaloosarunner on 7/27/2008 at 9:14 AM:
Hey Jim, yeah. it's been a while. I was stupid last summer and pretended I was Brian Sell and could run 110 mile weeks, neglecting the fact I at the time ran 17 5k and he a 14 5k...I was injured for 3 months. Then Spring I worked under a coach and had some awesome track workouts, but I wound up flat at the races. To his credit, he taught me a lot about patience and *when* to crank things up--but I just don't do well on mild mileage and lots of track work. Now I'm going back to what has worked with a humble appreciation of limits and going to crank up for a Fall marathon I think.

Seems like you and the former CR crew are doing well on this board. I do miss the Comp Wire though...where's Laker when you need him?


I had a similar experience except that your "mild" mileage is probably my high mileage. When I was coming back a few years ago I had a coach who started me out by working up to 50 mpw with tempos and strides. My 5k went from 21:30 to 19:40. Then he dropped my mleage down to 25-30 and had me do hard, short intervals on track with a couple rest days each week. My 5k times balooned up to mid 20's. I got rid of him, bumped my mileage back up and eventually got another coach. I haven't stopped improving since (well, except maybe for last month).

I miss having Laker around too, keeping everyone honest. He's never been seen again on forums that I know of since the demise of CR. I did see his name in last Boston reults however. He ran 2:46 at age 46.
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
http://runningahead.com/forums/post/d04adf81a7c64e0dabac9038f6f4651b#focus

I think I have been demoted to the sub 20 thread again. Here is todays race.
I ran it faster than I thought I would...but I really didn't have the drive to attack this race as I did my sub 20 effort last month...that is I was a pansy today..
hop
I'm sorry I missed this thread. I've been out, injured for a tiny bit. Self-inflicted, of course.
....
There has been much said about training, theory, and so on. But it seems to me that there is only one true path to "speed", and that is through many miles of consistent work, while remaining healthy. The exact formula is different for everyone. I know that 400's don't do a lot for me, but 100's and 200's help my raw speed, and 800's to 2000's help me take that speed up the distance ladder, and the long runs (even mixing in a little fast work.) help bring that on up. And hills are great, too, as well as races (or tempo runs or time trials.)

But I guess it all boils down to personal experience. It took me about 10,000miles to really learn what an "easy" pace was, and it took another 10,000 miles to learn learn a training formula that worked for me. That's experience. Miles are experience. Miles over all kinds of intensity and terrain. That's why so many experienced runners sound like a broken record, and say, "run more." You want a shortcut? Pick better parents, stick to short distances, and take some sort of expensive medical aid - whatever's in style. Right, so. You want to learn to pace? Run on the track with a stopwatch. Only look at the time once a lap. That will teach you something. You want to learn control? - how to mete out your effort? Race. It took me about 40 5k races to figure it out, and even now, I flub 4 out of five. I figure hitting it 1 out of ten times is good. You don't need to wear a watch to race - I have gone both ways and it does nothing for me. If you race frequently and spend some time on the track, and run a lot, you are intimately aware of the pain associated with the sum of your steps to that point in the race. I'd have you ditch the watch and hRM and gps, and all that crap for your easy runs. You don't know what the word "easy" means? Well - go run a 140 mile week out of the blue, and you will learn by about Tuesday. People who say they don't know easy (and I was one, and sometimes I still am...) It's a lack of experience. You need to poke those limits, as Tusca and Jim have - then you know what you can do. And me, too. I'm an idiot sometimes. Running is humbling.
"Men, today we die a little." Emil Zatopek at the start of the Olympic Marathon
Welcome back obsessor.
Ham & Egger
Obsessor, man, glad to see you're banging around these parts.

To Obessor's point, by the way: you got to put in the miles, no way around it. What those are and how they work for you, you got to figure out. Experiment of one, as the cliche goes, but it's true. Pfitz and Daniels and Lydiard and so on and so on are good templates, but you got to find the right mix. I think if you want to keep progressing in the 5k--especially if you're more ST than FT--a relative bump in volume is vital. And if you're injury prone, than finding ways to put in good training and staying healthy also are key. I will say, for overall volume, I'm better if I think in terms of hours run as opposed to mileage, but that's just me, and there's the avalanche post over LR on that little gem.

God seeing Obsessor and Jim makes me so nostalgic: where's Fredurie telling you about his 140 mile weeks; where's Leon going nuts on Richard's bad science; where's the Canadian dude whose name escapes me running his 2:25 marathon and being disappointed...well, best to knowing folks around here...

Anyhow, don't mean to hijack thread. Sorry about that...best of luck to you all out there.
www.tuscaloosarunner.blogspot.com
Welcome back Obsessor. I'm sure that pushing the envelope as you have contibuted to this little setback. However it also gave you a 2:30 marathon and sub-16 5k. The setback is only temporary but you get to keep those two gems forever.

Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
Nice post, obsessor.
a vagabond,..highway-beater; a rolling stone, one that does nought but runne here and there.
~Cotgrave, Randle A dictionarie of the French and English tongues, 1611
obsessor....hello....I see your running is not your entire life as you have a little girl.
I have a 3 year old daughter...I am learning that even if you run an hour or more a day there is still plenty of time for fun things to do with the family...its not all or nothing. Thats the hardest part is trying to balance the running and the other things.

I was thinking of your posts of easy pace today when I went to the track to run 6 miles.
I was trying to run slow as I was aching from yesterdays 5k...I thought I was 8:30 or slower but lo and behold I hit lap 1 in 2:00....well it felt slow enough so I kept it up....laps 1:56-2:00 the whole time. Well the laps got harder and harder but once I started to keep track of sub 2 minute laps it was a challenge and stubborn MichiganFlyer wasn't backing down. I tell myself all the time to run slower in training when I run outdoors but like a lot of us on here I think we never learn....maybe not until you reach 10,000 miles..

I must be around 3 or 4 thousand miles by now...give me 5 more years I guess.
RunAsics
Person of Interest
Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/28/2008 at 9:59 PM:


I was thinking of your posts of easy pace today when I went to the track to run 6 miles.
I was trying to run slow as I was aching from yesterdays 5k...I thought I was 8:30 or slower but lo and behold I hit lap 1 in 2:00....well it felt slow enough so I kept it up....laps 1:56-2:00 the whole time. Well the laps got harder and harder but once I started to keep track of sub 2 minute laps it was a challenge and stubborn MichiganFlyer wasn't backing down. I tell myself all the time to run slower in training when I run outdoors but like a lot of us on here I think we never learn....maybe not until you reach 10,000 miles..

I must be around 3 or 4 thousand miles by now...give me 5 more years I guess.


Were you going for an easy pace run or a recovery run? Note that the track is never a good place for a recovery run...
"Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is."

5k PR: 18:15 (06/08); 8k PR: 30:19 (03/08); 5M PR: 30:27 (06/08); 10k PR: 37:58 (10/08); 15k PR: 57:34 (11/08); 10M PR: 1:04:18 (05/08); HM PR: 1:28.03 (02/08); M PR: 3:11.51 (11/08)
JDF
Non-Stroller-Still Crazy
Quote from obsessor on 7/27/2008 at 6:37 PM:
I'm sorry I missed this thread. I've been out, injured for a tiny bit. Self-inflicted, of course.
....
There has been much said about training, theory, and so on. But it seems to me that there is only one true path to "speed", and that is through many miles of consistent work, while remaining healthy. The exact formula is different for everyone. I know that 400's don't do a lot for me, but 100's and 200's help my raw speed, and 800's to 2000's help me take that speed up the distance ladder, and the long runs (even mixing in a little fast work.) help bring that on up. And hills are great, too, as well as races (or tempo runs or time trials.)

But I guess it all boils down to personal experience. It took me about 10,000miles to really learn what an "easy" pace was, and it took another 10,000 miles to learn learn a training formula that worked for me. That's experience. Miles are experience. Miles over all kinds of intensity and terrain. That's why so many experienced runners sound like a broken record, and say, "run more." You want a shortcut? Pick better parents, stick to short distances, and take some sort of expensive medical aid - whatever's in style. Right, so. You want to learn to pace? Run on the track with a stopwatch. Only look at the time once a lap. That will teach you something. You want to learn control? - how to mete out your effort? Race. It took me about 40 5k races to figure it out, and even now, I flub 4 out of five. I figure hitting it 1 out of ten times is good. You don't need to wear a watch to race - I have gone both ways and it does nothing for me. If you race frequently and spend some time on the track, and run a lot, you are intimately aware of the pain associated with the sum of your steps to that point in the race. I'd have you ditch the watch and hRM and gps, and all that crap for your easy runs. You don't know what the word "easy" means? Well - go run a 140 mile week out of the blue, and you will learn by about Tuesday. People who say they don't know easy (and I was one, and sometimes I still am...) It's a lack of experience. You need to poke those limits, as Tusca and Jim have - then you know what you can do. And me, too. I'm an idiot sometimes. Running is humbling.


Truer words have never been spoken. If only I didn't have these damn ear plugs in! Big grin

Just kidding! What he said, is the secret to success!
http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13
Quote from JDF on 7/29/2008 at 1:06 AM:
Truer words have never been spoken.


Yeah, that's the best post I've read here in a long time. All of it.

I think for those of us who don't have that experience, the smartest thing to do is learn from the successes (and failures) of those with decades under their belt.
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
-----------------------------

Quote from RunAsics on 7/28/2008 at 10:13 PM:
Were you going for an easy pace run or a recovery run? Note that the track is never a good place for a recovery run...


I was thinking 9 minutes per mile so that would be recovery.I ran slow...but hit 2 minute splits. If I was running any slower I would be slogging. I did run 3/4 mile from home to the track and ran that portion at 8:00 per mile pace too.
hop
Yeah, I guess I would agree that your recovery run should be somewhere nice, like at a park or somewhere pleasant. And that every mile should feel easier than the last. Otherwise... no recovery. Try ditching the watch on the easy runs. If it truly is an easy run, or a recovery run... do you really care if the logbook says 42.55 or if it says 52.55? What's the difference? Races count. That's about it.
"Men, today we die a little." Emil Zatopek at the start of the Olympic Marathon
Quote from obsessor on 7/29/2008 at 10:00 PM:
Yeah, I guess I would agree that your recovery run should be somewhere nice, like at a park or somewhere pleasant. And that every mile should feel easier than the last. Otherwise... no recovery. Try ditching the watch on the easy runs. If it truly is an easy run, or a recovery run... do you really care if the logbook says 42.55 or if it says 52.55? What's the difference? Races count. That's about it.


You should write a book. Seriously.
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
-----------------------------