RunningAHEAD - Topic: Goal of sub 19 minute 5k

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Goal of sub 19 minute 5k (Read 2820 times)

MichiganFlyer

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posted: 7/17/2008 at 12:28 AM

Ran an easy 6 miles tonight in 47:45.
Surprisingly the sub 8 minute miles are now rolling up.
I was aiming for 8:30 miles but was consistently around 8:00.

Temp was around 85 degrees as well so this bodes well.
Maybe its all the rest I have been getting after doing 40 mile weeks for so long.
Whatever I will take it...just hope I am not losing my speed.
I will have to do a couple fast sessions before my race next Sunday.

MichiganFlyer view log	posted: 7/19/2008 at 11:04 PM modified: 7/19/2008 at 11:04 PM
	5 miles tempo tonight in 35:13 (7:03 pace). I was looking to run close to 7:00 pace for each mile but I am not Superman yet. It is 80 degrees and raining so the humidity definately makes the biggest difference in running when temps are 80 or higher. Splits 6:54 7:10 7:21 7:11 6:37 not very even on the splits but it was my 1st hard effort in a while.

JDF Non-Stroller-Still Crazy	posted: 7/21/2008 at 12:57 PM
	Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/19/2008 at 11:04 PM: 5 miles tempo tonight in 35:13 (7:03 pace). I was looking to run close to 7:00 pace for each mile but I am not Superman yet. It is 80 degrees and raining so the humidity definately makes the biggest difference in running when temps are 80 or higher. Splits 6:54 7:10 7:21 7:11 6:37 not very even on the splits but it was my 1st hard effort in a while. You are right where you need to be Mich. Sub 19:00 will be in your grasps this fall!
	http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13

RunAsics view log Person of Interest	posted: 7/21/2008 at 2:53 PM
	Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/19/2008 at 11:04 PM: 5 miles tempo tonight in 35:13 (7:03 pace). I was looking to run close to 7:00 pace for each mile but I am not Superman yet. It is 80 degrees and raining so the humidity definately makes the biggest difference in running when temps are 80 or higher. Splits 6:54 7:10 7:21 7:11 6:37 not very even on the splits but it was my 1st hard effort in a while. That's in your McMillan "steady state" pace. You're tempo pace range, based on your 5k, is 6:38 to 6:55. Still, nice job in the conditions.
	"Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is." 5k PR: 18:15 (06/08); 8k PR: 30:19 (03/08); 5M PR: 30:27 (06/08); 10k PR: 37:58 (10/08); 15k PR: 57:34 (11/08); 10M PR: 1:04:18 (05/08); HM PR: 1:28.03 (02/08); M PR: 3:11.51 (11/08)

JDF Non-Stroller-Still Crazy	posted: 7/21/2008 at 4:00 PM
	Here is my tempo run from this morning. It is 2 miles out, 4 quarter mile sprints, and then a nice easy 2 mile jog back. I am already seeing HUGE improvements from the track workout. 4 1:15 or less 400’s felt easy. http://tinyurl.com/57l9s4 However, my endurance is hurting right now. I had to stop and walk after 10 miles on Saturday. I just couldn’t hang with the group on the medium long run. Training for short distance at the same time as long distance is VERY difficult. If I train for short distance I loose my stamina. If I train for long distance then I loose my speed. If I train for both I just get hurt! I guess I will just stick with the short distance training and go for it on the mile and 5k’s.
	http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13

MichiganFlyer

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posted: 7/21/2008 at 6:49 PM

Quote from RunAsics on 7/21/2008 at 2:53 PM:

That's in your McMillan "steady state" pace. You're tempo pace range, based on your 5k, is 6:38 to 6:55. Still, nice job in the conditions.

Wait a minute...My best 5k race was 6:20 per mile pace.
You are saying (I know based off McMillan) I should run 5 miles at tempo pace at 6:47 per mile pace?
If thats true how fast is 5 mile race pace???

I will answer my own question...
32:29 or 6:29 per mileaccording to McMillan.
Wow I have gotten alot faster!

6:29 pace for 5 miles sounds gut wrenching.
That is akin to running a 10k in 40:25 or so.

MichiganFlyer view log	posted: 7/21/2008 at 6:53 PM
	An 8 miler yesterday morning...finally ran slow Splits 8:46 8:43 8:53 8:59 8:47 8:29 8:16 7:43 Total run 68:36 (8:35 per mile pace average)

JDF Non-Stroller-Still Crazy	posted: 7/21/2008 at 7:33 PM modified: 7/21/2008 at 7:35 PM
	Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/21/2008 at 6:49 PM: Wait a minute...My best 5k race was 6:20 per mile pace. You ran "EXTRA" hard that day didn't you? Keep those workouts going and 6:15 will feel like a stroll.
	http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13

JDF Non-Stroller-Still Crazy	posted: 7/21/2008 at 7:35 PM
	Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/19/2008 at 11:04 PM: 5 miles tempo tonight in 35:13 (7:03 pace). I was looking to run close to 7:00 pace for each mile but I am not Superman yet. It is 80 degrees and raining so the humidity definately makes the biggest difference in running when temps are 80 or higher. Splits 6:54 7:10 7:21 7:11 6:37 not very even on the splits but it was my 1st hard effort in a while. That 6:37 final mile sounds fast for your other splits. Was that one downhill?
	http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 7/21/2008 at 7:45 PM modified: 7/21/2008 at 7:47 PM
	Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/21/2008 at 6:49 PM: Wait a minute...My best 5k race was 6:20 per mile pace. You are saying (I know based off McMillan) I should run 5 miles at tempo pace at 6:47 per mile pace? If thats true how fast is 5 mile race pace??? Daniels would advise the following tempo run paces (based on your 19:36 5k) MTA: predicts a 5-miler of 32:19, which is 6:28 pace. 20 minutes: 6:44 (this is a classic tempo run at threshold pace) 25 min: 6:49 30 min: 6:53 35 min: 6:56 <-- This is right around 5 miles 40 min: 6:58 45 min: 7:00 50 min: 7:02 55 min: 7:04 60 min: 7:06 (based on p. 114 of Daniels' Running Formula, 2nd Edition)
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

MichiganFlyer

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posted: 7/21/2008 at 10:40 PM

Quote from JDF on 7/21/2008 at 7:35 PM:

That 6:37 final mile sounds fast for your other splits. Was that one downhill?

Yes it is

But it is the same mile in reverse of the opening uphill mile which I ran in 6:54.
I think I started a little fast. All my runs are loops that start and finish in the same place so that I get no elevation gain or loss.

Today I ran 3 miles with the goal of getting progressively faster... 4:30, 4:10, 3:50, 3:30, 3:10, possibly 3:00 for last half mile....it was a little hot and humid and I ate a Big Mac for lunch so this did not quite go as planned.

I ran the 1st half mile in 4:18 (aiming for 4:30 that is hard to go that slow)
Next half mile was 4:00 (aiming for 4:10) unbelievable how slow an 8:18 mile is nowadays.

Next half mile aimed for 3:50 and hit 3:52 (oops)
Next half mile was struggling with pace and hit 3:30 my goal.
Thats when I decided to try to keep the same pace and ran 3:33 and 3:06 on the last 2 halves.

Mile splits 8:18, 7:23, 6:39 ugh this was hard and I was woozy upon completion.
Some days are better than others I am blaming McDonalds.

RunAsics view log Person of Interest	posted: 7/22/2008 at 1:50 AM
	Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/21/2008 at 6:49 PM: Wait a minute...My best 5k race was 6:20 per mile pace. You are saying (I know based off McMillan) I should run 5 miles at tempo pace at 6:47 per mile pace? If thats true how fast is 5 mile race pace??? I will answer my own question... 32:29 or 6:29 per mileaccording to McMillan. Wow I have gotten alot faster! 6:29 pace for 5 miles sounds gut wrenching. That is akin to running a 10k in 40:25 or so. Gut wrenching? No one said it was going to be easy... Aim high. Start with 1 or 2 easy miles then kick in the tempo. You can build up to 5 miles at t-pace by doing tempo intervals first and/or start with 20 mins/3 miles then extended the distance. Note that a Big Mac at lunch is generally not a good idea! Also, adjust your workout goals based on the weather.
	"Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is." 5k PR: 18:15 (06/08); 8k PR: 30:19 (03/08); 5M PR: 30:27 (06/08); 10k PR: 37:58 (10/08); 15k PR: 57:34 (11/08); 10M PR: 1:04:18 (05/08); HM PR: 1:28.03 (02/08); M PR: 3:11.51 (11/08)

MichiganFlyer

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posted: 7/22/2008 at 12:32 PM

I am going to tell a little story now.
My nephew got hit by a pitch 15 times as a freshman on his high school baseball team.
That alone tells me he will be a very good prospect.
For he is not afraid of the baseball.
That gives him an edge...whereas the player who only gets hit 2 or 3 times a year must have it in the back of his brain while batting "The pitch may hit me...I better be ready just in case to twist out of the way"

My nephew is not like that. He stands right on the plate. He does not think "I better watch out...don't want to get hit by the fastball" This gives him valuable hundreths of seconds of extra reaction time to see the pitch and hit the pitch.

UNfortuneatly he got hit near the eye in a recent summer game. Now I wonder if fear will enter his mind and he will regress.

This got to me in that I realized this is the way a succesful athlete must think. There can be no fear if you want to do your best. We tend to run within ourselves for fear that we will blow up later in a race. Prefontaine ran without fear. He went to the front and stayed in the front. The only thing we have to fear is fear itself. I think runners can get the edge if they throw fear out the window. Yes pacing is important but you can pace with reckless abandon as long as you relax.

A show on MTV someone told me about. Road Rules perhaps. The players stood on platforms high in the air. They had harnesses on. The glass platforms had a trap door that would fall if the players heart rate got above a certain rate (say 150 beats per minute)...the key to the game was keeping fear out. If you feared you would fall....thats how I try to run....relax and it will make your run easier. By fearing you are only making yourself more tense and you will have a slower time. Easier said than done I know.

Tchuck	posted: 7/22/2008 at 2:15 PM
	Quote from RunAsics on 7/22/2008 at 1:50 AM: Gut wrenching? No one said it was going to be easy... Aim high. Start with 1 or 2 easy miles then kick in the tempo. You can build up to 5 miles at t-pace by doing tempo intervals first and/or start with 20 mins/3 miles then extended the distance. Note that a Big Mac at lunch is generally not a good idea! Also, adjust your workout goals based on the weather. I question that how much further physiological benefit you get from increasing hard tempo work from 20 min to 33-35 min other than beating on the body and slowing recovery. According to Daniel's, no further benefit is gained by going more than 20 min. at hard tempo pace. Tinman and more recently Daniel's has advocated that as the length/time of tempo running goes higher, the pace should be slower and the physiological effect is the same. I personally feel a longer tempo at a bit slower pace creates a physiological effect and creates more confidence. Many a runner will run the short tempo too hard or start too hard and suddenly it feels race like. They are illiciting anaerobic overload early in run which defeats purpose of run in my opinion. I recommend my runners go for 30-40 min but at a bit slower pace than hard tempo and if feeling great, finish strong at hard tempo the last mile or so.
	Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

RunAsics view log Person of Interest	posted: 7/22/2008 at 2:25 PM
	That's what's great about McMillan - he gives you a pace RANGE.
	"Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is." 5k PR: 18:15 (06/08); 8k PR: 30:19 (03/08); 5M PR: 30:27 (06/08); 10k PR: 37:58 (10/08); 15k PR: 57:34 (11/08); 10M PR: 1:04:18 (05/08); HM PR: 1:28.03 (02/08); M PR: 3:11.51 (11/08)

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