RunningAHEAD - Topic: Goal of sub 19 minute 5k

Goal of sub 19 minute 5k (Read 2820 times)

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 7/24/2008 at 2:58 PM modified: 7/24/2008 at 2:58 PM
	Quote from kencamet on 7/24/2008 at 2:35 PM: What do others do for a warmup routine before a 5K or a 10K race? I do a minimum of 2 miles to warm up for a 5k or 10k. This ensures that I'm fully warmed up, and also helps to ensure that I've induced the all-important pre-race bowel movement.
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

JakeKnight view log	posted: 7/24/2008 at 3:01 PM
	Hey. When did this thread go and get so funny? You people could have sent out a memo or something. Anytime "hogwash" and "poppycock" are used in the same sentence, I want to be watching. ----------------------------------- Ditto on that 5-k warmup, by the way. And I think that's true in all kinds of weather, even you aren't actually warming anything. I think I have habitually warmed up way, way too little ... usually 5-10 minutes jogging around, rarely more than a mile. At my last 5k, Trent dragged me around the course for a good 2 miles. Which I thought was stupid, since it was only a 5k, and it was 91 damn degrees outside. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be a very easy and (for me) very fast race. I suspect that warmup played a big part. In future races, I'm doing 3-4 miles and a couple quick strides before the gun.
	E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com -----------------------------

MrPHinNJ view log Potato Grower	posted: 7/24/2008 at 3:22 PM
	Quote from JakeKnight on 7/24/2008 at 3:01 PM: At my last 5k, Trent dragged me around the course for a good 2 miles. Which I thought was stupid, since it was only a 5k, and it was 91 damn degrees outside. Back when I was running low mileage I too thought it was silly to waste all of that energy warming up. Not any more. The last 5K I ran in I went early and ran the whole course easy beforehand, and like JK threw in some strides. For me this was 25 - 30 minutes. I ran a masters PR, so I would say the warm up helped. I read somewhere on one of these message boards, "The shorter the race, the longer the warm up". Makes sense.
	The glass is half full.

Scout7 view log CPT Curmudgeon	posted: 7/24/2008 at 3:31 PM
	Quote from JakeKnight on 7/24/2008 at 3:01 PM: Hey. When did this thread go and get so funny? You people could have sent out a memo or something. I'll be sure to add you to the distro list for next time.
	Amat victoria curam. Sine labore nihil. Dulcius ex asperis.

Jeff view log	posted: 7/24/2008 at 3:36 PM
	I kind of love this thread. The arguing, explaining, wondering, hoping, defending, encouraging, and dreaming: runners awake and hungry for faster. Get after it, yo.
	a vagabond,..highway-beater; a rolling stone, one that does nought but runne here and there. ~Cotgrave, Randle A dictionarie of the French and English tongues, 1611

CarmelRunner view log Indy trails	posted: 7/24/2008 at 3:52 PM
	Riveting simply riveting. I am the edge of my seat for the next golden nugget! I want to eccho the warm-up. I used to think it was worthless until I tried it. I usually run an easy mile or so. It helps my race pace. Not sure if there is a limit for a benefit say running a mile or two as a warm up for a a marathon may take some energy off the last few miles but for a 5k or 10K it doesn't seem to be an impact for me. A running partner of mine explained it in terms of foreplay. You don't just want to rush into anything cold. An analogy that has stuck with me for a while. Now we not only have poppycock and hogwash, but we also have sexual innuendo. The circle will soon be complete.
	"He conquers who endures" - Persius "Illegitimis non carborundum" - Gen. Joseph Stilwell

MichiganFlyer

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posted: 7/24/2008 at 4:09 PM
modified: 7/24/2008 at 4:11 PM

Quote from Jim24315 on 7/24/2008 at 2:48 PM:

Hills are great, no doubt, but better give some credit to those miles too. IF you were running lots of miles before I didn't notice. It appeared to me that your most miles ever came during the 4-month period up to and including your breakthrough. It will be interesting to see how you do after dropping your miles down again.

1st of all I would like to say after running in about 25 races that I have my own pre-race routine of what works best. If its very hot I only jog 1/2 mile or so before a race.

About 35 minutes before a 5k I will run for 10-12 minutes at a pace around 8:00 per mile.
Then I stretch for 2-3 minutes and run for 3 minutes at race pace.
This is finished up about 20 minutes before the race start.
So I do about 2 miles prior to a race.
I also do a couple striders about 6-8 minutes before race start.

As far as mileage and fast times I will be less confident after running 28 miles a week the past 3 weeks...and this week will probably be in the 20s as well. But I have tried to continue a weekly long run the past few weeks ... I have been running 3-4 miles these days instead of 6-7 miles for my middle of the week easy runs. And no interval work to speak of. I think alot of it depends on how I attack the course on Sunday. I have nothing to lose really I already broke 20....so if I want I can attack sub 20 again... I will probably try to hang with my pacers and see how it feels for the 1st mile or so.

BadDawg view log	posted: 7/24/2008 at 5:01 PM
	Quote from MrPHinNJ on 7/24/2008 at 12:33 PM: I initially monitored pace for the purpose of seeing what a certain pace felt like. It took me a little time but I now have a good idea of how different workouts should feel. Even though I run the same 5K course every week, I'm still pretty lousy at judging pace. That's not necessarily a bad thing. One week of the Good Times series is the Nostradamus Predict Your Time run. Watches aren't allowed, anybody that forgets has it taken at the start and returned at the finish. I ran a 9 second PR by feel, and also ran a PR on the week that my Garmin wouldn't power up. Might be coincidence but I doubt it. I probably would have looked at the pace on my Garmin, and said "whoa, I can't hold this pace..." and backed off. I guess every now and then it is a good idea to ditch the watch, pin your ears back and run hard by feel.
	Ed Tuesday Good Times 5K series in Lowell, MA HTFU "The truth is that there is nothing noble in being superior to somebody else. The only real nobility is in being superior to your former self." Whitney Young

RunAsics view log Person of Interest	posted: 7/24/2008 at 6:32 PM
	Quote from BadDawg on 7/24/2008 at 5:01 PM: Might be coincidence but I doubt it. I probably would have looked at the pace on my Garmin, and said "whoa, I can't hold this pace..." and backed off. I guess every now and then it is a good idea to ditch the watch, pin your ears back and run hard by feel. Funny for my first 5k I forgot my watch. I just ran as hard as I could. Worked out fine. These days, I use the pace readout from my Polar to make sure I haven't slowed down. I tend to know when I'm going too fast. My 5k warm-up is limited to some jogging ((<= 1 mile) and a few accelerations. Seems to be OK for me but I'm sure it could be improved. I don't do much more than that for my track sessions either.
	"Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is." 5k PR: 18:15 (06/08); 8k PR: 30:19 (03/08); 5M PR: 30:27 (06/08); 10k PR: 37:58 (10/08); 15k PR: 57:34 (11/08); 10M PR: 1:04:18 (05/08); HM PR: 1:28.03 (02/08); M PR: 3:11.51 (11/08)

jEfFgObLuE view log Frustrating Project	posted: 7/24/2008 at 6:39 PM
	I usually try to finish my warm-up within 5 minutes or so of the race start. If I sit around for too long after warming up, I'm no longer warmed-up.
	20th Century: 800m: 2:04 \|1600m: 4:37 \|3200m: 10:06 \|5k: 16:23 \|10k: 35:38 \|15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59 21st Century: 5k: 19:42 \|10k: 43:00 "Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen Oswald acted alone.

JakeKnight view log	posted: 7/24/2008 at 9:31 PM
	Quote from BadDawg on 7/24/2008 at 5:01 PM: Even though I run the same 5K course every week, I'm still pretty lousy at judging pace. That's not necessarily a bad thing. One week of the Good Times series is the Nostradamus Predict Your Time run. Watches aren't allowed, anybody that forgets has it taken at the start and returned at the finish. I ran a 9 second PR by feel, and also ran a PR on the week that my Garmin wouldn't power up. Might be coincidence but I doubt it. That'd make a good new thread. I've had similar experiences lately - not having a watch seemed to lead to a faster race time, at least in shorter races. I wonder if some of us non-elite types (a.k.a. slowpokes) are actually hampered by watches? Maybe they cause a tendency to force an artificial pace - either too slow or too fast starting out - that you'd self-correct if you were going by feel?
	E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com -----------------------------

Tchuck	posted: 7/24/2008 at 9:54 PM
	Quote from AmoresPerros on 7/24/2008 at 2:22 PM: Tchuck: > If I run a 5K at 6:30 pace and do most training runs at 8:30 pace. Well, 8:05 would be somewhat harder. Hey, I'm similar enough to comment. I find 8:05 feels like work on my starting mile, so I like to start out slower. But after I warm up -- which might take a couple miles depending, and a few days I've gone 5miles and not felt like I ever quite warmed up, but I got tired -- anyway, after I warmup, I might find myself cruising down to 8:05, or even just below 8, without it feeling more difficult. This does suggest to me that I should be running longer warmups before 5K races, but, I guess I'm too lazy to do so. Amores, I myself will start out at 8:30 pace and 2 miles in I am at 8:15 pace without knowing it. You naturally pick up pace a bit as run goes on with same effort. If I go towards 8:00 mile I can feel it is faster. Yes, warm ups are very important for 5Ks and all distances u to 10K. When going to half or full marathon, you can reduce warm up and use first mile as a part of warm up. I like to do 1-3 miles before a 5K depending on temperature or if a goal race. No reason for me to lose blood volume before a race if real hot. I generally like a slow 1 mile warm up with an additional 2-3 min at race pace to finish and then a few striders.
	Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

BadDawg view log	posted: 7/25/2008 at 3:29 AM
	Quote from JakeKnight on 7/24/2008 at 9:31 PM: I wonder if some of us non-elite types (a.k.a. slowpokes) are actually hampered by watches? Maybe they cause a tendency to force an artificial pace - either too slow or too fast starting out - that you'd self-correct if you were going by feel? Keep it simple Jake, three socks and some running shoes.
	Ed Tuesday Good Times 5K series in Lowell, MA HTFU "The truth is that there is nothing noble in being superior to somebody else. The only real nobility is in being superior to your former self." Whitney Young

mikeymike

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posted: 7/25/2008 at 3:46 AM

Quote from JakeKnight on 7/24/2008 at 9:31 PM:

ThI wonder if some of us non-elite types (a.k.a. slowpokes) are actually hampered by watches? Maybe they cause a tendency to force an artificial pace - either too slow or too fast starting out - that you'd self-correct if you were going by feel?

Bingo. Figure out (in training ideally but alternatively through trial and error in races) what x race pace feels like and then find that feeling in a race. You don't think your way through a race.

Scout7 view log CPT Curmudgeon	posted: 7/25/2008 at 11:42 AM
	Quote from Scout7 on 7/23/2008 at 3:41 PM: What does your watch or HRM know that your body doesn't? Nothing at all.
	Amat victoria curam. Sine labore nihil. Dulcius ex asperis.

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