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Goal of sub 19 minute 5k (Read 2820 times)
MichiganFlyer
posted: 7/25/2008 at 12:05 PM
Quote from JakeKnight on 7/24/2008 at 9:31 PM:
That'd make a good new thread. I've had similar experiences lately - not having a watch seemed to lead to a faster race time, at least in shorter races.

I wonder if some of us non-elite types (a.k.a. slowpokes) are actually hampered by watches? Maybe they cause a tendency to force an artificial pace - either too slow or too fast starting out - that you'd self-correct if you were going by feel?


I wear a watch and usually I check it every 4 minutes or so. I just get this itching feeling inside that I want to know how much time has elapsed. If I ran without a watch I still would see my time at the mile markers. It is rare to find a race without mile splits.
Amy Barrow
Nurse
 posted: 7/25/2008 at 1:42 PM
Quote from MrPHinNJ on 7/24/2008 at 3:22 PM:
The last 5K I ran in I went early and ran the whole course easy beforehand, and like JK threw in some strides. For me this was 25 - 30 minutes. I ran a masters PR, so I would say the warm up helped.

I read somewhere on one of these message boards, "The shorter the race, the longer the warm up". Makes sense.


I always run the course and then some strides before a 5K. Sometimes you feel like you couldn't possibly run any faster than the jogging pace of the warm up, but after the gun goes off you reap the benefits. For 10K I usually run about 2 miles very slowly and a few strides. But it's a great suggestion to use the first couple of miles in anything longer for the warm up. I jogged to the start at Moon Pie 10M (about 200 yards) and just started the race. It worked great.

Back when I used a HR monitor for training I wore it in a 5k ONCE. I looked down at 1 mile and saw 195 and it scared me so bad I almost stopped running. Didn't do it again. However, in the marathon it won me money in Memphis one year when it was 78 degrees at the start. By watching it and keeping it low for the first 3/4 of the marathon, I was able to pass multitudes of women in the last 1/4 arriving second overall and first masters.
My goals for the year: State records for 1 mile, 5k, 10k, 4 mile, 10 mile, 8k, 15k, ½ marathon, graduate nursing school, pass NCLEX, get a job in critical care
Jim24315
posted: 7/25/2008 at 1:49 PM
Hey guys. How's this for a set of 400's by a 50-year old woman...or for that matter, a man?


1:31:63 (1:04)
1:29:02 (1:04)
1:27:73 (1:02)
1:25:98 (1:03)
1:25:32 (1:02)
1:25:04 (1:04)
1:23:66 (1:06)
1:22:21 --

Check out Amy Barrow's log.
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
Amy Barrow
Nurse
 posted: 7/25/2008 at 1:55 PM
I try to do them "cut down" style. I had a little trouble with the middle ones this week; kinda got stuck in the 1:25 range. But when you know you only have two to go....well, you can let a little bit of conservatism go. It is a nice track with no walker traffic; soft surface and wide turns. I was a little concerned while reading the previous posts about doing them too fast for my race times. My endurance is my weakness, though, so I also tried to cut down the 200 jog time to get that "tiredness build up" effect by about the 5th 400.
My goals for the year: State records for 1 mile, 5k, 10k, 4 mile, 10 mile, 8k, 15k, ½ marathon, graduate nursing school, pass NCLEX, get a job in critical care
Jim24315
posted: 7/25/2008 at 2:19 PM
Amy; my guess is that endurance is not really a weakness for you, but you do better in shorter races because of your training style. You run plenty enough miles to make one of your weekly runs longer (12-15 miles). The shorter rest between reps is good, but when they reps are so fast they are still v02 max rather than endurance building. Something like 5- 6 x 1k at current 10k pace, o 4 x 1600 at 10-mile pace with short recovery jogs, would really bump up your endurance. Also you could do your tempos a little faster--like 10-mile race pace.

All that said, I"m still impressed with those 400's. Maybe you are trying to peak for something? That's when I'd do a workout like the 400's--when trying to peak for a shorter race, only I"m not sure I could run them that fast if I wanted to Sad The last time I did any was early May and reps were 88-90 range.
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
Scout7
CPT Curmudgeon
 posted: 7/25/2008 at 3:01 PM
Quote from MichiganFlyer on 7/25/2008 at 12:05 PM:
I wear a watch and usually I check it every 4 minutes or so. I just get this itching feeling inside that I want to know how much time has elapsed. If I ran without a watch I still would see my time at the mile markers. It is rare to find a race without mile splits.


I would say that seeing your mile splits is not the same as being able to look whenever you want.
Amat victoria curam.

Sine labore nihil.

Dulcius ex asperis.
Amy Barrow
Nurse
 posted: 7/25/2008 at 6:03 PM
Quote from Jim24315 on 7/25/2008 at 2:19 PM:
Something like 5- 6 x 1k at current 10k pace, o 4 x 1600 at 10-mile pace with short recovery jogs, would really bump up your endurance. Also you could do your tempos a little faster--like 10-mile race pace.

All that said, I"m still impressed with those 400's. Maybe you are trying to peak for something? .


I guess I don't know what "peak" really means since I seem to be peaking for several different races over the next few months. I guess it's not really "peaking" if that's the case. I'd like to break 19 two weeks from tomorrow at a very flat 5k here. Next weekend, however, I have this 4 miler where I'd also like to run pretty good for the record and for my own personal record. Then there's the 10K on Labor Day, the 15K in September and the 1/2 mar in October.....

I am planning on moving some miles around for a long run on the weekend to get more prepared for 15k/half. I did ok at the 10 miler in June (having not really done any 10 mile runs to prepare for it), but I need to break 1:30 for the half to get the record. I added 4 x 1 mile last Saturday and ran them very slow (considering my 5k race pace). I just can't get "up" for running mile intervals alone (not in a race setting) even tho my husband runs them with me (not at my pace but he is physically present...) I am doing the mile intervals with a 1 minute rest. I do them on a point to point certified mile that is very flat and even. It is mentally easier than running around the track four times.
My goals for the year: State records for 1 mile, 5k, 10k, 4 mile, 10 mile, 8k, 15k, ½ marathon, graduate nursing school, pass NCLEX, get a job in critical care
JDF
Non-Stroller-Still Crazy
 posted: 7/26/2008 at 6:51 PM
modified: 7/26/2008 at 6:52 PM
Quote from Jim24315 on 7/25/2008 at 1:49 PM:
Hey guys. How's this for a set of 400's by a 50-year old woman...or for that matter, a man?


1:31:63 (1:04)
1:29:02 (1:04)
1:27:73 (1:02)
1:25:98 (1:03)
1:25:32 (1:02)
1:25:04 (1:04)
1:23:66 (1:06)
1:22:21 --

Check out Amy Barrow's log.


Yes that is pretty freaking amazing. God, I only hope I am half the runner she is when I am 50! Or half the runner you are when I am 60 for that matter!

Man I would love to see what she can do a mile in! I would have trouble doing her workout! I did manage one decent 1/4 mile during my run this morning though. It was a 1:02 for .24 miles. That was down a steep hill though. Check out mile 10.5 to 11.

http://tinyurl.com/5mapvd
http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13
Jim24315
posted: 7/26/2008 at 8:38 PM
Quote from JDF on 7/26/2008 at 6:51 PM:
Yes that is pretty freaking amazing. God, I only hope I am half the runner she is when I am 50! Or half the runner you are when I am 60 for that matter!

Man I would love to see what she can do a mile in! I would have trouble doing her workout! I did manage one decent 1/4 mile during my run this morning though. It was a 1:02 for .24 miles. That was down a steep hill though. Check out mile 10.5 to 11.

http://tinyurl.com/5mapvd


Hey skinny. You'd better get going on those miles or you're gonna have trouble with this old man at 30-whatever; never mind 60. I don't want to hear about that mile-5k stuff either...10k and up I'm talkin. I'll give you month to get ready. After that all bets are off Wink
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
Jim24315
posted: 7/26/2008 at 8:47 PM
Quote from Amy Barrow on 7/25/2008 at 6:03 PM:
I guess I don't know what "peak" really means since I seem to be peaking for several different races over the next few months. I guess it's not really "peaking" if that's the case. I'd like to break 19 two weeks from tomorrow at a very flat 5k here. Next weekend, however, I have this 4 miler where I'd also like to run pretty good for the record and for my own personal record. Then there's the 10K on Labor Day, the 15K in September and the 1/2 mar in October.....


In practice I'm not much good at peaking either but I can talk a good game. I liked that post of yours a week or so ago where you talked about being a "game day player" rather than someone who is more of a workout star. I don't now if that fits me exactly but I sure do know that I am much more motivated to run because of racing than by training. That's what makes it so hard to peak at just the right time. There are so many races I want to do that it's hard to train up to one like you are "suppposed" to. My planned schedule looks similar to yours.
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
JDF
Non-Stroller-Still Crazy
 posted: 7/26/2008 at 9:20 PM
modified: 7/26/2008 at 9:22 PM
Quote from Jim24315 on 7/26/2008 at 8:38 PM:
Hey skinny. You'd better get going on those miles or you're gonna have trouble with this old man at 30-whatever; never mind 60. I don't want to hear about that mile-5k stuff either...10k and up I'm talkin. I'll give you month to get ready. After that all bets are off Wink


I did say I would like to be "HALF" the runner you are, at 60! I haven't come close to your 10K and over times ever! That will change this season! You can quote me on that.

You are right. The mile and 5k are cop out races. However, I do enjoy them so I will concentrate on those for September. After that I will train for a marathon in the late fall.

I am confident that I can BQ this season and I should have a shot at a sub 3 hour. Oh, yea and I will do one last race with the stroller. It will be a 10K on a good course. I hope to stay with my friend for at least 4 miles who will be shooting for a sub 34:00 with his 1 year old son in tow!

Jim,

What races do you have coming up? Are you looking to go sub 38:30 10K anytime soon?
http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13
tuscaloosarunner
Ham & Egger
 posted: 7/26/2008 at 9:55 PM
modified: 7/27/2008 at 2:21 PM
Quote from Amy Barrow on 7/25/2008 at 6:03 PM:
I guess I don't know what "peak" really means since I seem to be peaking for several different races over the next few months. I guess it's not really "peaking" if that's the case. I'd like to break 19 two weeks from tomorrow at a very flat 5k here. Next weekend, however, I have this 4 miler where I'd also like to run pretty good for the record and for my own personal record. Then there's the 10K on Labor Day, the 15K in September and the 1/2 mar in October...


In all honesty, unless you're on an XC team or are gearing up for one specific race, I think peaking is a bit of a misnomer--I mean, you can keep building fitness throughout the year if you keep your interval paces at 10k efforts or a tad slower. Hell, Deek and now Symmonds and the other Aussies do pretty freaking well on the complex system. But this relies on keeping a relative high amount of managable volume and keeping the tempo work constant and the VO2 stuff pretty slow or doing things like monofartlek or 1:1 to rest/recovery. But once you start hitting the 5k pace or faster intervals--or really killing yourself on the recovery--you'll get sharp quick but it won't usually last. I'd say those 400s *will* peak, but that may not gel with your race plans.
www.tuscaloosarunner.blogspot.com
Jim24315
posted: 7/26/2008 at 10:49 PM
Quote from JDF on 7/26/2008 at 9:20 PM:
I did say I would like to be "HALF" the runner you are, at 60! I haven't come close to your 10K and over times ever! That will change this season! You can quote me on that.

You are right. The mile and 5k are cop out races. However, I do enjoy them so I will concentrate on those for September. After that I will train for a marathon in the late fall.

I am confident that I can BQ this season and I should have a shot at a sub 3 hour. Oh, yea and I will do one last race with the stroller. It will be a 10K on a good course. I hope to stay with my friend for at least 4 miles who will be shooting for a sub 34:00 with his 1 year old son in tow!

Jim,

What races do you have coming up? Are you looking to go sub 38:30 10K anytime soon?


Travis,
I don't think that the mile and 5k are cop out races...not at all. It's just that I know I'd have no chance at them no matter how little you train. I don't doubt that you'll surpass my recent 10k times this year either. In all honestly, however, I doubt that you will see anything close to a sub-34. You have the potential to do it but I believe it's going to take a minimum of a year of solid training and probably longer. That's 2 sub 17's in the same race and you haven't broken 18 yet for one of them. Also there are only 5 months left in this year. I'm not trying to sell you short but I think it's going to take more time and training.

As far as me looking to break 38:30 this year, I don't see it. I'm not trying to be modest when I say this, but it is very possible that the 38:35 I ran in May was as good as it's going to get. Call it negative thinking if you want but I am a realist. At 62 I can't keep setting PR's forever and that was my best race at any distance. That said, it doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying. Also, I'm a lot more optimistic about lowering my PR's at some of the other distances, especially at 10 miles and marathon.
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
Jim24315
posted: 7/26/2008 at 10:52 PM
Welcome back Tusca,

Long time, no see. It's great to see that you are putting in some nice mileage once again.
Masters PR's:
40's - 5k 16:39; 10k 33:48, 10m 56:25, HM 1:15:27, Marathon 2:43:12
50's - couch potato
60's - 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
JDF
Non-Stroller-Still Crazy
 posted: 7/27/2008 at 12:02 AM
Quote from Jim24315 on 7/26/2008 at 10:49 PM:
Travis,
I don't think that the mile and 5k are cop out races...not at all. It's just that I know I'd have no chance at them no matter how little you train. I don't doubt that you'll surpass my recent 10k times this year either. In all honestly, however, I doubt that you will see anything close to a sub-34. You have the potential to do it but I believe it's going to take a minimum of a year of solid training and probably longer. That's 2 sub 17's in the same race and you haven't broken 18 yet for one of them. Also there are only 5 months left in this year. I'm not trying to sell you short but I think it's going to take more time and training.

As far as me looking to break 38:30 this year, I don't see it. I'm not trying to be modest when I say this, but it is very possible that the 38:35 I ran in May was as good as it's going to get. Call it negative thinking if you want but I am a realist. At 62 I can't keep setting PR's forever and that was my best race at any distance. That said, it doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying. Also, I'm a lot more optimistic about lowering my PR's at some of the other distances, especially at 10 miles and marathon.


I didn't say I was going to do a sub 34:00. I said I was going to try to keep up with him for 4 miles at that pace. I doubt I will make it past 3 miles but I will try. I know my times don't reflect this but I think I could break 18:00 right now. On the right course I think even 17:30 would not be out of the question.

After 3 miles I fade really fast though.
http://runningahead.com/profiles/69d214e40d824ad0b0a73c925d655a13


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