Forums >Racing>2024 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
Waltons ThreadLord
There is only one hill of note on that course, but as you can see, it's a big one. The first stretch is around 1k at a 5% grade, then you get a brief reprieve before a second stretch of about 500m, but at a 7.5% grade. The first time they ran this event they marketed it (quite tongue in cheek) as "99.5% flat". That joke is still going strong.
My son and I raced a new event two years ago. It was billed as a "fast, flat 5k course." It was fast in terms of being almost straight (other than the turnaround), but there was a hill a hundred meters from the start - dropping down on the way out and a climb at the end. Not a huge hill - about 50 feet or 15 meters at a tad less than 3% grade - but big enough that you're definitely not happy to see it at the end of the race. Ever since, we refer to it as "the flat 5k with a hill." We ran it again last year, so we obviously don't mind the hill. Your comment reminded me of our local event.
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Scotch Plains 5k, 6/12; Firecracker 4-miler, 7/4
Fred, I did a 5k about 10 years ago marketed ad a very fast course. There was prize money and they got some really fast runners (a former Olympian and one who would go on to be an Olympian and I think world champ in sprint tri). Anyway, it had a massive hill with a switchback (google Luskin's Hill in towson, md). Anyway, times looked really fast, like sub 13. The organizers kept mentioning the fast course during awards. One minor detail that they were not aware of....it was 2.8 miles, maybe less, don't remember. It was a foggy morning and police diverted the course so it wouldn't go on a major road.it was not a fast course.
Fred - that's a bit cheeky for a 5k! I mean, for a HM, you expect fast and flat might include a couple of smaller undulations just because it's generally tough to find a totally flat stretch that long. For a 5k, flat should be flat (not "flat with a hill" lol)!
As a general rule, I'd say for a half marathon:
Anything under 100m (330ft) is either flat, rolling / undulating, or "flat with a hill" if most of the climbing is concentrated into one hill.
100-200m: hilly
200m-300m: very hilly
300m+ (~1000ft): Coatesville
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Kathi - Always fun when the course gets altered at the last moment.
I had to look up my March half on the Mark scale. With 150m of climb, it classifies as "hilly." I had one half that barely classifies as "very hilly" but 60% of that came on one big hill that started just before the mile 9 mark. And it was 73º (23C) that day (in October!), so even more fun. Then there was the race that Gamin claimed had 2,800'/850m of climb, even though it took place in mostly flat Jersey City. I've also run some halves at the shore with less than 25'/8m of climb, but probably had a little more when you count the ramps going up onto the boardwalk.
Fred - 850m would be brutal, IF it was real. The only two times I've hit that were on fairly brutal trail events.
Have had the odd amusing Garmin glitch though. The first time I ran Waterfront Half Marathon, which is literally dead flat apart from one tiny rise over a small bridge (maybe 5m gain?) that you repeat twice, it came up as over 200m total elevation gain. Because it's coastal, a lot of the course runs next to cliffs. Sometimes the GPS will ping off the cliff rather than the road, so you end up with a spurious elevation gain. Only ever happened with my older Garmin FR245 though and not since I switched to the Fenix. The Fenix has a built-in altimeter that generally results in a pretty accurate elevation gain number (apart from the odd occasion when it's given me 100m+ of elevation gain during a track workout).
I ran a waterfront race where the GPS pinged off the glass office towers and Garmin showed me running in the Hudson River.
I tend to differentiate betweeen "really flat" and "almost flat". Atlantic City is really flat, minus 2 transitions between the street & boardwalk. Salisbury is flat on Mark's scale, but definitely has elevation changes, not all natural (overpass and pedestrian tunnel). If you are used to doing all your runs on the AC or OC boardwalk, Salisbury is not going to seem flat. If your usual runs fall between very hilly & Coatesville, it seems flat. Here races like to say "relatively flat & fast" in the course description. It is never flat. On the flip side, there are the ones that describe the course as challenging or not a PR course.
I've definitely had some GPS glitches. The first 2 or 3 times I did the Baltimore HM, I got a crazy elevation jump in the first mile, right by the police headquarters. GPS really didn't like the Susquehanna River bridge in that HM. It looks like the elvation may be close when I was over the island, but not when over water. I'd be really curious to see if anyone gets accurate elevation readings for the 10k Across the Bay, since 4 miles is on a bridge and it is all water. I'm not willing to test that one myself.
Decent sort of week. Good hill workout Tuesday, and an even better VO2Max workout Thursday. It was one of those workouts where it looked pretty intimidating on paper, but I pretty much nailed it. One of those days that was really good for the confidence... even if I was still feeling it during Saturday's track session!
Speaking of nailing it, Miss 6 knocked 5 mins off her 5k PB at Parkrun on Saturday morning as well. She went out really hot and I thought we were gonna be in for a really long day! But she pretty much just kept going, probably only about 500m of walk breaks in there, and certainly her best effort. She was around 38 minutes which was a big improvement.
JamesD
After a good 13-mile run on Monday, my left knee started hurting and stiffening up the next day. It didn’t improve for a couple of days, so I took two off and then just pool ran today. Seems better, if not 100%.
Sun - off
Mon - 13.2 miles in park PM @ 8:35
Tues - 8 miles slow TM (96:25 PM) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 mins
Weds - 8.6 miles in park PM @ 8:33
Thurs/Fri - off, left knee swollen
Sat - 81 minutes pool running
Total - 29.8 miles
YTD - 40.3 mpw
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Hot Weather Complainer
Just a quick check in, I'll post a report tomorrow. 1:29.55 in the half today, as part of a 32km/20 miles long progression. Pretty happy to sneak under 1:30 for the half in warmer conditions than I expected (it was only 23C from about halfway but no wind and high sun made it feel pretty tough). Definitely felt like it would be a struggle at about 14km so very nice to hold the pace on tired legs all the way to the finish.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Steve - in that heat, sub 1:30 is very good. Your pacing was pretty much perfect.
Mark - nice week.
James - good luck with knee.
I have the FR245, elevation is normally good. But I have had occassionally the errors when runing Wellington half where I go up and down steep hills.
My week wasn't great.
Monday I took off post race, I was planning on running, but had life semi get in the way and I didn't have the motivation to run quite late. Wed was off (went to the NZ v Aus cricket).
Saturday was my first bailed workout for a long time. It was meant to 150 minutes incl. 3 * 20 at MP, but I bailed second rep. Failure was due to:
1 (Definitely) adjusting my MP aim due to recent races. I was too optimistic.
2 (Probably) it being a bit warm.
3 (Possible) fatigue from the race last Sunday
4 (Possible) my Covid booter on Friday.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Mark Happy to hear about the big improvement for miss 6. I chuckled when I saw the "don't race the forklifts" run title on Strava.
watsonc123 Good call with the bail. It always sucks to have to do, but it's better in the .... long run, usually. Pun intended.
My Week
Let this be a down week volume wise both so I could taper for the race and to let my IT band chill out. Might give a race roport for the 10 mile but it will be short. Most of it felt kind of steady and there's not a ton to say. This year a bunch of people passed me throughout the race, the opposite of last year. I saw 59:0X on the watch with the finish around the corner, tried to kick hard but then gassed out pretty badly. Like wheezing. Missed my goal by seconds but still took 94 seconds off of last years time on this course. Onward...
Mother of Cats
Saturday was my first bailed workout for a long time. It was meant to 150 minutes incl. 3 * 20 at MP, but I bailed second rep. Failure was due to: 1 (Definitely) adjusting my MP aim due to recent races. I was too optimistic. 2 (Probably) it being a bit warm. 3 (Possible) fatigue from the race last Sunday 4 (Possible) my Covid booter on Friday.
1, 2, and 4 all seem like probable factors to me.
Half-Crazy - funny story about that course. Yeah, if you see unexpectedly amazing times, the course is probably short.
Marky_Mark- congrats to little miss 6!
James - I hope the knee is just a blip.
Steve - congrats on the age group win!
Merkle - a solid performance on that course, which is not a fast one.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Steve big congrats on the sub 1.30 within a long run.
Watson man what a nail biter. That last ball was exciting. I've given up on covid vaccinations after the first 2.
Sorry I seem to have dropped back in mileage again for 2 weeks in a row. I'm still keeping very active though and feel great.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Thanks all. Are Covid boosters still a thing? The original didn't even work. And the side effect for me (Shingles) was bad enough but far worse for some people. No way I'm risking that again.
watson - Definitely a good move bailing instead of running yourself into the ground.
darkwave - it was only third, but 6 seconds off second. 11 minutes off first though...
mmerkle - You've been training really hard so to gas out in the last minute isn't a huge crash. Probably means you've run close to the best race you could on the day.
Mark - Nice week, especially the session. It seems your daughter has inherited some running talent.
Motorway Half Marathon Race Report
As everyone knows, my main goal is conquering the cramp monster in the marathon in 8 weeks. I've been hitting mileage records for the last few months and training harder, but smarter, than I ever have before. Those who have been here for a while will remember my many failed attempts to go sub 1:30 from 2017-21 including near misses and some bad crashes.
This race is part of the build up to the Christchurch marathon on April 21, 8 weeks away. The plan was to incorporate some easy running beforehand and run progressively faster. I was looking at 1:28-29 until I got sick 2 weeks ago, very mild and the symptoms suggested Covid, and I didn't decide to run it until Wednesday. I've had sinus pain and fatigue throughout the 2 weeks leading in but it was nothing I'd normally worry about.
Given that, I thought sub 1:30 would be a better, and quite easily achievable goal (what a change a few years makes). The forecast was good, light wind and coolish temperatures (16C at the start - 60F - increasing to 20C by the end - 68F). For an A race, I'd want much cooler.
I arrived at the athletics stadium about an hour before the race (9am start - way too late in mid summer), and did my 7km easy paced warm up. It felt extremely comfortable, and some high cloud made it feel quite cool, almost autumn like. My heart rate, however, told a different story, hovering around 140 which is way higher than normal for that pace. I wasn't anxious, maybe just a bit excited to run a race instead of my usual training.
By start time, the cloud was gone but it didn't feel too warm. There's a 5km and a 10km which start at the same time. The gun goes and we start with 1.5 laps of the track before heading across some grass towards the motorway pathways. It crossed my mind on the grass that it would suck if I'm hurting on the way back. I should note that my coach set up the workout which I had on my watch, and paused it after the 7km warm up. I didn't note the time, so in terms of the race, I was basing everything off the splits. I count about 45 people in front of me on the track but within the first few km I pass a fair few, and assume they're doing the 5km and 10km. I assume wrong, because at each turnaround, 3 from the 10km come back past, and 1 from the 5km. Most of them are people miscalculating the half.
I get stuck behind people a bit in the first few km, which is probably a good thing, with splits of 4:18, 4:14, 4:13, 4:15, 4:15. I don't feel like I'm working too hard but I can tell it's warming up, with no cloud left. There's a slight breeze to run into which is nice for some cooling, but I still try and grab a drink to pour over my head at 4km. A guy in front of me grabs the water I was aiming for (just like in Melbourne when I ran my PB) so I miss out. All feels good though and I keep it steady over some minor bumps and false flats (up and down) for 4:15, 4:11, 4:15, 4:15, 4:15. At 8km I have my first down period where I don't feel great. But I quickly work through it, and remind myself that I'll have a slight tailwind on the way back. I had one Maurten gel at the start, and my partner hands me a 500ml Precision 1500 drink at about 10km. I drink it over the next 2km or so, and I feel pretty bad as I don't often drink much at half marathon pace, but I tell myself over and over that I'm better off forcing it down.
There's a small dogleg after the first turnaround, then we're on our way back. I've been picking people off for the whole first half, but now with 9km to go I'm running solo. I can see a girl with 2 guys who seem to be pacing her off in the distance and I focus on slowly reeling them in. At 14km when the plan was to kick the pace down, I realise this is a tough day. There's a slight breeze behind me, but the cooling effect is gone and the sun is facing me. I notice how much I'm sweating and think that I probably should have planned for 2 of my high sodium drinks.
There's a small loop at about 15km that includes a small climb and a gravel path. My splits have been 4:15, 4:15, 4:09, 4:12, 4:12 so I feel like I'm on track for sub 1:30 even if I lose a bit of time, but I know I'll have to work hard for it. I also want to protect my place because at the 2 turnarounds, I calculate I must be close to top 3 for my age group. The 16th km ticks over in 4:14 and it's now straight back to the stadium, along the path I've run 100 times. There's a small hill early in that km but I feel like I attack it nicely and it definitely seems like the 3 in front are coming back to me. I tell myself it's 5km of work left, but I realise this is nothing like Melbourne where I got stronger as I went. It's now quite hot for a hard workout (23C/74F but feels much hotter) - but I've done a few in hotter conditions than this recently. It's definitely not killer heat but it also isn't PB heat.
I'm ticking off each km now, with the next 3 going in 4:16, 4:13, 4:10. I guess I'm lifting a little, but it feels really hard and I'm tempted to ease off a bit to ensure no blow up. The target in front of me helps, and as I pull up next to them I realise it's a guy from my coaching group pacing his wife, along with Chris Dryden, who represented New Zealand at the world half marathon champs last year.
We leave the motorway path and head across some asphalt to the grass again, with the 20th km flashing up in 4:11. I feel like 1:30 is safe, and across the 300 metres or so on the grass the pace is really dropping, it feels like soft sand, and I'm cooked. Thank goodness for the track in the stadium, where there is 1.5 laps to go. I don't know my overall time but based on the splits thought I was pretty safe. As I go past the start/finish I see the clock says 1:28:25 and I realise I have little room for error. I know that 4:15 pace translates to about 100 seconds for 400 metres because I've done a few 15 x 400 sessions at that pace. So even though my legs are gone I know I have to lift, because I want that sub 1:30. As I turn into the final straight I can see I have about 30 seconds so I push all the way to the finish and sneak though in 1:29:55. My mates' wife runs a big PB, but wanted sub 1:30 and misses my 6 seconds. I see on other people's Strava variations from 21.25 - 21.4km so it was slightly long. I'm really glad I didn't ease off when I really wanted to late. Even though it's some way off my best, I'm really happy with that effort on tired legs in conditions I definitely wouldn't choose for an A race.
8 weeks left, and after a slight down week I'm looking forward to 3-4 big weeks before the taper starts.