Forums >Racing>Marathon training plan to bq?
Hi all!
First time posting here! Although I've been a runner all my life (cross country half marathons etc) Ive only gotten back into running this past year after 6-7 years off (grad school etc). I'm running my first marathon in a week and have been training somewhat lower mileage since I'm starting out.. peaked at 45 and consistently running maybe 35. I think my mileage could have been higher but I think I tend to run hard workouts and then take a rest day instead of running easy. I've run 2 21 milers, 2 18 milers, and maybe 6-7 15 milers. I usually do a mid week long run 10-15 miles. Anyway, still learning and have been using this round of training to mostly build endurance and want to run a second marathon continuing on improving. I've been looking at marathon plans and reading books for my second marathon and wanted to see what your thoughts were on the pfitzinger marathon plan for bq qualifying?
i realize I'm somewhat of a beginner but after this first marathon I was wanting to try and bq. Here is my plan of what I was thinking.
-marathon 10/22
-take some time off of light running/not training: 26 days? (Read this was recommended)
-2 months of easy runs building up mileage to 45-50
-pfitzinger marathon plan- I was wanting to do 18 weeks of 70 miles/week (at peak) plan. The plans start out around 50 and say you should have been running at 45 miles/week so I feel like this should be doable with the 2 months prior mileage buildup and my previous marathon training base.
-marathon 5/20
what do you think of this plan? I realize I'm sort of a beginner but was thinking that 6 months of training could make attempting a bq a reasonable goal? I did a half marathon a couple months ago at 1:47 which is kind of bq range for a 30F. I also feel like I've made a lot of improvements in less than a year... losing 45 pounds, going from inactive to being able to run a marathon so feel like 6 months of hard work can get me pretty far. Not that it matters but both my parents were also long distance runner my dad 2:20 marathoner so maybe it's somewhere in my DNA to be possible? Anyway, now that I've shared my life story do you think this is a reasonable plan to bq by May if I consistently work hard using the above plan or should I make other adjustments?
thank you!!
-B
So, how did the first marathon go?
My goal when I first decided to run a marathon was also to BQ. Three years later, I'm still chasing that goal. The one thing I've learned is that the physiological adaptation necessary for running a BQ marathon is a long-term process for me. I've gotten closer the more miles I've run each training cycle, but still feel like I'm working up to the required fitness for the distance.
You have a good plan, on paper at least, for reaching the BQ grail by your next race. You're younger, so may have a little more latitude as far as fitness for the goal. The secret sauce of any training program is consistency, so if you can avoid injury and stick with your plan, you may be successful.
Good luck and enjoy the journey!
Your plan is reasonable, if not a tad aggressive. It is tough to say whether it will produce a BQ. You might need more than one marathon training cycle. Keep in mind, to get into the race you will likely need a time 3-5 minutes under your BQ time.
You will also likely need a HM around 1:35 to 1:37 to have a reasonable chance to BQ.
A few other things to consider:
-Losing 45 lbs is awesome. If you have more weight to lose that is in your favor (assuming you lose it). General rule of 2 seconds/mile faster per pound of weight loss (until you get to an unhealthy low weight).
- A May race can be risky. Hot weather can easily add 20+ minutes to your time, especially spring races where you have not acclimated over the summer.
Sorry for the delay in response.. i have been trying to edit and respond but my message somehow got marked as spam and I have been banned from responding or editing my post till just now. My marathon went pretty well.. I got 4:00:04 I was on pace for 3:50 but hit the wall at the end. I think it was good for how I trained and my first marathon but know I can do a lot better with more time to train. I think I'm close to my racing weight now but could probably lose 5-10 pounds without losing fitness so am going to try to do that before I start up my next training cycle. Thanks for the good wishes and feedback! Glad I can respond and be apart of the forum now!
Pace Prophet
Running more and running easy will help you. Your race times show more speed than endurance deficit (typical for a younger runner and lower volume training). Make sure you run your easy runs at truly easy pace, increase your training volume as much as you safely can, and choose your goal based on your fitness (with 1:47 half, 3:50 is an ambitious goal for a 35mpw runner), and you'll see big improvements. That said, a 70mpw plan may be a bit overly ambitious for the next cycle - that's doubling your mpw.
I think the Pfitz 70 plan will be too aggressive for your next marathon and may result in injury.
I've run 5 marathons and BQed in the last 3. My average and peak mileage was something like this:
40/50
45/55
55/62
62/80
67/85
For marathon #4, I did get an overuse (IT band) injury that required me to take some time off after the marathon.
Now I'm finally doing the Pftiz 18/85 plan, modified a bit to actually have a rest day every 7-10 days (it calls for 7 days/week of running). Running an average of 75 miles/week is quite a bit of running.
Mileage is important, but so are quality workouts and especially getting marathon pace mileage in toward the end of your training. If you increase mileage too quickly you may be too tired to perform quality workouts.
You don't need 26 days off of running after a marathon. I do wait 2-3 weeks before doing speed work but you can get back to short and easy runs after a few days. Sometimes the mental break is as important as the physical.
The marathon plan peaks at 70 towards the end it doesn't consistently run 70 each week. Most of the time its between 50-60. I ran a couple weeks at 45-50 so I thought it seemed reasonable to peak at 70 after 6 months of consistent training? That's why I left a 2-3 month pre Pfitzinger schedule in there so I can work my mileage up before the plan starts? I was planning on doing some light running here soon now that its been 4-5 days after the marathon then doing a reverse taper back to my original weekly mileage then start to increase it.
RIP Milkman
I agree with the other posters that the 70 mile plan might be too much for you. Think about your base building plan. Generally, base building is meant to get you to a higher number than you’ve been in the past (if you’re new). However, the key is you will reduce back down once you start a plan with more speed in it, e.g. Pfiz.
I do however think the 55 mile plan is perfect for you. It’ll get your average for the entire cycle up to 45 or so miles per week, which would be a great improvement over your previous marathon. If you can get through that and feel healthy, you can bump up to the 70 mile plan for the fall.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Do you think I would be able to qualify for boston on the Pfitz 55 plan? Or do you think there is a better strategy to try and qualify?
One of the contributors on RA did a query of people who have done Boston. One of the questions is how many miles did you run in the year before you qualified. IIRC, the average was right at 2000 miles in the year previous to qualifying. My first BQ was Dec 2014 and my mileage for 2014 was just shy of 2200. Now, I'm older, so it probably takes a little longer for my body to adjust to the stimuli, but I started my serious BQ training in 2013. You should bounce back a little quicker, but maybe not. Given that, I would target the Pfitz 55 plan for spring or summer and then the 70 for a November or December marathon. You will be much better prepared for the later marathon and the weather should be more favorable then spring.
Not sure where you're located, but I would recommend CIM (Sacramento, CA) for December target marathon and especially the 3:35 pace team (Tim and Jaimie). If you can handle downhills relatively well, then I would recommend Canyon City (Azusa, CA) in November, extremely fast!
Ray
One of the contributors on RA did a query of people who have done Boston. One of the questions is how many miles did you run in the year before you qualified. IIRC, the average was right at 2000 miles in the year previous to qualifying. My first BQ was Dec 2014 and my mileage for 2014 was just shy of 2200. Now, I'm older, so it probably takes a little longer for my body to adjust to the stimuli, but I started my serious BQ training in 2013. You should bounce back a little quicker, but maybe not. Given that, I would target the Pfitz 55 plan for spring or summer and then the 70 for a November or December marathon. You will be much better prepared for the later marathon and the weather should be more favorable then spring. Not sure where you're located, but I would recommend CIM (Sacramento, CA) for December target marathon and especially the 3:35 pace team (Tim and Jaimie). If you can handle downhills relatively well, then I would recommend Canyon City (Azusa, CA) in November, extremely fast!
Ugh I’ll be the annoying purist: don’t run a marathon that’s a net 5000 foot downhill to qualify for Boston. You’re basically cheating. CIM is net downhill but it’s fairly gradual and qualifies for the Olympic Trials, which is good enough with me.
These plans can be modified. You can do the 55 plan and add miles or the 70 plan and cut miles. Some people adapt to higher miles better than others. You've been s runner all your life so you should have a better idea than any of us of your tolerance for higher miles and for rapid increases in miles. If you've been injury free in the past and have tolerated harder training well then I see no reason not to go for the 70 plan. Hopefully you have the experience to distinguish between ordinary fatigue and aches and true exhaustion and pain that are early warning signs of an impending injury.
Thanks. I am generally pretty good at reading my body and preventing injuries. This past training season there were a couple times I took 3-4 days off when I felt something strange (ankle tightness, possibly something with my Achilles) and it eliminated the issue completely as I continued training. I would like to try the 70 plan but will back off mileage it if I think it is too much for me. I'd really just like to see how it goes but am okay with adjusting my plan if I know it is too much. This is the schedule I made building up to pfitz 70 so it wasn't such a sudden transition so its basically a 26 week training plan. The 70 mpw/18 week pfitz schedule starts at weekly mileage of 53 and the 18 week plan would then bring me up to my racing day.
Week
Mon
Tue
Wed
Thu
Fri
Sat
Sun
Total
11/20
Rest
8 w/ 4 HMP
rest
9
7
12
36
11/27
8 w/ 10 x 100 m
11
6
13 w/ 8 MP
38
12/4
10
4
8 w/ 4HMP
14
43
12/11
9 w/ 5 HMP
5
16 w/ 10 MP
45
12/18
15
47
12/25
10 w/ 5 HMP
7 w/ 8x 100
18
50
1/1
9 w/ 4 HMP
54
1/8
interesting! Thanks for this info! I live on the east coast now but am from the west coast originally. I had my eye on the CIM one it looks like a really pretty course too! I was considering doing the Sugarloaf one in Maine since it is also downhill at the end and I think it would be fun to run. Any other good courses in spring in new england area?
not bad for mile 25
Yes, I actually it's best for a newish runner to plan on a couple of 2000+ miles years prior to getting a BQ. Of course, some runners have extraordinary talent and can do it right away, and others will take longer, or never achieve it.