Ultra Runners

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January 2023 Ultra Training Thread (Read 25 times)

wcrunner2


Are we there, yet?

    Wrapped up the year short of my 2022 mileage goal of 2000 with 1871.9 miles.  Will have my work cut out for me to get 2000 in 2023. Doing more power walking than running to try to maintain some semblance of fitness.

     2024 Races:

          03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

          05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
          06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour.

     

     

         

      Happy new year to all!

       

      I didn't exactly finish the year strong, with another bout of bronchitis in December.  Paused my coaching, took a hiatus from running, and stuck to walking for most of the month.  Leaving for Ireland tomorrow for 9 days, and will start fresh with running after I'm back.  Finished the year with a smidge over 2200 miles.  Goals for 2023 TBD!

       

      For anyone heading out west for races in 2023, I'll be volunteering at Canyons, Miwok, and Western States.  Hope to see some of you in the new year.

      6/9/24 Cinderella Trail Run 50k, Berkeley, CA

      7/20/24 Tahoe Rim Trail 56 miler, NV

      9/21/24 Mountain Lakes 100, OR


      Duke of the Internet

        I finished 2022 with 2,723 miles.  Solid year.  Short of the 3,000+ Miles each of the last two years but some of that is due to the extra time from the Covid WFM bonus.  No mileage goals for 2023.  I have broken 2,500 miles 8 of the last 9 years so I would like to that gain if possible.


        Gatsby see you at states.  I’m still deciding on canyons.  I think I will do the WS camp instead although.


        Pain is my friend

          Happy new year everyone. Not as happy for me as I had hoped.

          Was a crazy race. Some things went well and many others didn’t. Found myself in a dark hole when I knew things were falling apart. I had to regroup and make a new plan. The alternative was to quit. I don’t know that word. New plan and hope it was. If I could maintain a steady pace I could still win. 

          Finished with 130.969 miles. Not the grand number I had hoped for or knew I could run. Finished 1st overall. 24 hour races are hard to get right.

           

          I finished the year off with 3412 miles. My biggest year ever. Ran 2- 100 miler, a last man standing, a road marathon and a 24 hour loop race.

          ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

          Bear 100 22:08 2021 

          Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

           

          Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles

          Bonnevile Backyard ultra 

          Ute 100 Aug

          24 hour loop race?

           

          a smith


          king of the non-sequitur

            Happy new year everyone. Not as happy for me as I had hoped.

            Was a crazy race. Some things went well and many others didn’t. Found myself in a dark hole when I knew things were falling apart. I had to regroup and make a new plan. The alternative was to quit. I don’t know that word. New plan and hope it was. If I could maintain a steady pace I could still win. 

            Finished with 130.969 miles. Not the grand number I had hoped for or knew I could run. Finished 1st overall. 24 hour races are hard to get right.

             

            I finished the year off with 3412 miles. My biggest year ever. Ran 2- 100 miler, a last man standing, a road marathon and a 24 hour loop race.

             

            amazing year Crash and although it's not the distance you wanted an elite performance nonetheless, congrats!

             

            Bridle Trails 50k 1-13-24 5:39

            Cottontail 6 Hour 4-13-24

            Cougar Long Series (May,June,July,Aug 2024)

            Carkeek 6 Hour 10-19-24 

            CommanderKeen


            Cobra Commander Keen

              I'll echo what a smith said to Krash.

               

              If you'll have me, I'd like to throw in here some as I'm planning on running my first "big boy" ultras this year - Heartland 50 in early May and Heartland (100) in early October. These are both gravel road races on rolling hills in Kansas, for anyone unfamiliar with them (which I suspect is most to all of you).

               

              I grew up on roads like the ones these races are on, and have gravel roads and (small) hills available to me right outside my neighborhood, so terrain familiarity is there. 

              A quick introduction for anyone who cares, mostly copy/pasted from a couple other threads:

               

              Kyle here, 38 years old from flyover country (Oklahoma), USA. Married (13 years in March) with 3 daughters (ages 5, 8, 11 - functionally 12 right now). I'm an adult-onset runner, starting in July 2015. I jumped in to running headfirst after doing a 5k with my wife's family and discovering I loved it and wondering just how fast I could end up getting at the distance.

               

              2022 was a banner year for me. I’ve had great success working with my coach, notching PRs for every distance I raced and topping it off with a marathon that was likely the best race of any distance I’ve ever executed.

               

              I've long held this idea that when I get "fast enough" at the marathon or 5k that I'd finally run some ultras, and after last year I think I've done that.

               

              Mileage/training time history:


              2015: 558 miles, 85:52:07 h:m:s (starting from July)
              2016: 1,912 miles, 252:01:07 h:m:s
              2017: 2,242 miles, 298:12:13 h:m:s
              2018: 2,931 miles, 388:49:29 h:m:s
              2019: 3,172 miles, 429:32:07 h:m:s
              2020: 3,353 miles, 463:06:50 h:m:s
              2021: 3,842.53 mi, 527:19:31 h:m:s
              2022: 4,063.12 mi, 561:19:33 h:m:s

               

              I certainly look forward to contributing here and learning what I can.

              5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

              ?

               

              a smith


              king of the non-sequitur

                 

                 

                I certainly look forward to contributing here and learning what I can.

                 

                Hey Kyle, I am assuming you are the same Kyle I follow on Strava. Your last marathon was so impressive with very consistent splits. i often think of 26.2 and being a kind of magic number in terms of a common limit of endurance for most well trained experienced runners and after the things change a lot. for me it's around 22 miles actually. not just 'the wall' but maybe the second or third wall. the one that forces you to change things in order to keep moving. in short a 50 miler is going to be very very different. there are different ways of going about it. one way is to go out fast and hope that when you blow up you will still be able to keep moving, anothe way would be to change how you run it and start out slow. i find the preponderance of advice suggesting the latter but for me the jury is still out. i think when i was younger going out a little fast was acutally better and even though the whole event was a regression run my times were better than when i purposefully went out slow. now i definitely need to be more careful about going out slow. im just talking about 50's here not 100 miles.

                 

                Bridle Trails 50k 1-13-24 5:39

                Cottontail 6 Hour 4-13-24

                Cougar Long Series (May,June,July,Aug 2024)

                Carkeek 6 Hour 10-19-24 


                Duke of the Internet

                  Happy new year everyone. Not as happy for me as I had hoped.

                  Was a crazy race. Some things went well and many others didn’t. Found myself in a dark hole when I knew things were falling apart. I had to regroup and make a new plan. The alternative was to quit. I don’t know that word. New plan and hope it was. If I could maintain a steady pace I could still win. 

                  Finished with 130.969 miles. Not the grand number I had hoped for or knew I could run. Finished 1st overall. 24 hour races are hard to get right.

                   

                  I finished the year off with 3412 miles. My biggest year ever. Ran 2- 100 miler, a last man standing, a road marathon and a 24 hour loop race.

                   

                  Great race Krash.  It's nice when your fall back plan is to just win the race.  While I can't relate to this strategy, I'm none the less super impressed.


                  Duke of the Internet

                     

                    If you'll have me, I'd like to throw in here some as I'm planning on running my first "big boy" ultras this year - Heartland 50 in early May and Heartland (100) in early October. These are both gravel road races on rolling hills in Kansas, for anyone unfamiliar with them (which I suspect is most to all of you).

                     

                    I grew up on roads like the ones these races are on, and have gravel roads and (small) hills available to me right outside my neighborhood, so terrain familiarity is there. 

                     

                    Welcome.  I have a few friends that have run the 100 miler in the fall.  What I know about that race is that is very small.  Like 20 finishers every year.  That's good from the idea that you may win your age group or even place in the race (I "think" only like 5 or 6 people broke 24 hours last year).  The bad is you will likely be running for very long stretches of the race alone.

                     

                    I'm not the type of person that uses pacers (at least I haven't in the past five years) but you may want to consider seeing if you have a friend that could run some of the last 50 miles with you.  My first 100 I ever did, I had two pacers and one person crewing me.  I surrounded myself with people that wouldn't allow me to quit.  Once you finish the first one, it gets much easier.

                    CommanderKeen


                    Cobra Commander Keen

                      a smith - Yeah, that's me. And thank you very much!
                      Most naturally (for the distances with which I have experience) I fall into a "speed up as the race progresses" approach, but we'll see as I move into uncharted territory.


                      b a d g e r - Running alone doesn't bother me - across the past several years I've only run with another person a handful of times (outside of races). Doing it for a longer duration at once could be a bit different, though.


                      There might be a couple locals I could reach out to via strava to see about them possibly being willing/able to pace, but the only person I could reach out to directly for this lives in Nevada, so that's likely out.

                       

                      It gets easier after the first? I've always heard the opposite, with people saying something along the lines of "I didn't know what I was getting myself into the first time, but for my second I knew ahead of time how badly it would hurt which made it easy to drop".

                      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      ?

                       


                      Pain is my friend

                        Across the years 24 hour Phoenix AZ Race report

                         

                         

                         

                        There is a long and a short answer to how the race went. I don't know if I will write the long one. Since the race didn't go as planned I feel some of the details don't matter. I think the hardest part is that I put in so much work for this race and came away with a flop. I say flop because I know I can run so much farther in 24 hours than I did. Many have told me I did amazing. I think many of you know how I feel when I say I want more and doing ok in my book is not good enough.

                         

                         

                         

                        The race started off just as planed. The course was a 1.04 mile loop. Mostly dirt with very little elevation change. Every 4 hours we changed directions. It was like a fresh start every time we changed directions. Everything was new. I was running 9:10-9:25 pace for the first 30 milers. It was easy and relaxed. Then I notice the pace started to slip and I had to work to get it back to goal pace. I knew something was off. I backed off the 9:45s for some time and then that pace was hard to keep. My feet and quads started hurting earlier than I think they should have. I had done a lot of long training runs in the Carbon X Hoka. I felt they would help me with the long miles. At mile 72 I switch my shoes to my traditional Bondi's. I have never switched my shoes during an ultra. This time it was the smart move. But the damage was done. The Carbon X were the wrong shoe for this race for me.

                         

                         

                         

                        About the some time as I changed my shoes I did some math. Most of the time math and ultra running don't mix. I would never bet on that guy to figure out the math in a life or death situation. I still had a clear head at that time and my math was spot on. I knew at the pace I was running and the pace my body would let me run, I wouldn't make my goal. I then found myself is the darkest hole ever. I was hurt, sad, frustrated and angry all at the same time. I though about quitting and I don't know that word. Many say ultras are 20% physical and 80% mental. The brain is a powerful thing. If the mind is not in it you are more likely to fail. I thought about the options I had. I could call it a day or do something about it.

                         

                         

                         

                        I text my wife and let her know I was in a dark place. To my surprise the text started to flood in. She had posted on FB that I wasn't doing well and to send me text. Well it worked. I started to look for a new reason to finish the race. Could I still win the race? I figured if I could keep a steady pace that I could.

                         

                         

                         

                        The temperature wasn't that hot but I always felt like I was sweating. It was a bit humid. I used some ice and water to cool off. Ave was 50-65 degrees the whole race. But coming from 20 degrees and snow it felt a bit warm to me.

                         

                         

                         

                        With 2 hours to go it started to rain. I didn't put on a rain jacket or change my cloths. Just kept running. I finished the race with 130.969 miles and first overall. So far. There was 6 days of running and you could start any of the 6 days. On the last day someone beat me by one lap to win.

                         

                         

                         

                        I am grateful for my family and friends. I met many new ones that helped me too. I couldn't have pushed on without them. I don't know if I will do another 24 hour loop race. I will leave that decision for another day. There are so many take a ways from this race and lessoned learned.

                         

                         

                         

                        You are never alone and you can do hard things.

                        ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

                        Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                        Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

                         

                        Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles

                        Bonnevile Backyard ultra 

                        Ute 100 Aug

                        24 hour loop race?

                         


                        Duke of the Internet

                          Great report Krash.  I'm sure the long version will be disserting what went wrong and why it went wrong.  I have tried to do this and sometimes I just come with it just wasn't my day.  Sometimes on the other side of the coin, I can't understand why I had such a good day.  Like when I ran 20 hours at Rocky Raccoon.  There was nothing in my training that lead me to believe this was possible.  In fact, during the race I kept wondering if I would blow up and not finish at all.

                           

                          I also have never changed shoes during an ultra and I have run probably a 100 ultra's.  I think I'm stubburn and say these are the shoes I brought with me and I'm using them.  In fact, I almost never bring a back up pair.  I need to rethink this strategy and bring extra shoes for Western States.  I don't want to DNF because I'm stubburn.  Especially since I will actually have crew for the first time in 6+ years. 

                           

                          Good luck on the next attempt!

                          nOOky


                            Krash, I think going from cold to run in the heat was the deal breaker. You mentioned ice and water for cooling off. Don't underestimate how much of a factor the heat played.

                             

                            I know it seems weird to think of 60F as hot, but coming from Wisconsin and doing a race in California one February it was 64F and I almost died lol. Tarawera in a month will possibly be 80F and humid, and it's very cold here, I'm not sure how I'll train for that heat yet.

                            Istria 110k 4-6-2024

                            WS100 6-29-2024

                            UTMB 171k 8-30-2024

                            MCM 10-27-2024

                             

                             

                             

                            a smith


                            king of the non-sequitur

                                

                              I'm not the type of person that uses pacers (at least I haven't in the past five years) but you may want to consider seeing if you have a friend that could run some of the last 50 miles with you.  My first 100 I ever did, I had two pacers and one person crewing me.  I surrounded myself with people that wouldn't allow me to quit.  Once you finish the first one, it gets much easier.

                               

                              I think listen to the Badger. FWIW I attempted 100M twice. The first one was Mt Lakes (2017?). i made some huge mistakes. these are not excuses because i feel like i am a better person the way everything went down but i can list some of them as warnings:

                              1. i signed up knowing i would have a pacer but this person bailed on me a couple weeks prior to race day. i think if my friend had stuck with me i probably could have finished. starting out feeling down about this was a bad start. make sure you have someone you can rely on!

                              2. i had some friends and acquaintances running the race and made the huge mistake of trying to run with them in the beginning. run your own race!

                              3. i experimented with cbd oil. turns out the stuff makes me depressed. do not experiment!

                              4. the people at the 100k aid station where i quit tried to keep me going but they were mean about it and thought childish jeering would help. if you are mean to me and i am just a little baby mentally (like where i was at the time) it just makes me want to do the opposite of what you say even more. advice here? don't expect any help or true empathy

                              5. it was all really-really mental and i am still processing it

                               

                              like i said i dont regret dropping. some of the folks i knew who were running that day and finished don't even run ultras anymore. perhaps they dont even run

                               

                              my second attempt at 100M was at a timed event that didn't allow camping and i quit for safety reasons (no ride home and don't want to die). bad on me for even signing up for such stupidity but it is what it is.

                               

                              idk if i will ever try again. probably not. maybe it's all divine intervention to keep me alive

                               

                              Bridle Trails 50k 1-13-24 5:39

                              Cottontail 6 Hour 4-13-24

                              Cougar Long Series (May,June,July,Aug 2024)

                              Carkeek 6 Hour 10-19-24 


                              Pain is my friend

                                He is a killer. I normally do a 10 heat training regiment before most races. I didn't for this one. Maybe that's one of the problems. The research shows it's best to start 10 day out and to start easy. If you have access to a sauna, I hear that's the best. I would go out and run in the middle of the day. Wear 2 long sleeve shirts of very dark color. The next step it to add a rain jacket. It taps all the heat in. Then don't drink water for the first 20-30 min after a run. My style is much like SWAP.

                                 

                                Krash, I think going from cold to run in the heat was the deal breaker. You mentioned ice and water for cooling off. Don't underestimate how much of a factor the heat played.

                                 

                                I know it seems weird to think of 60F as hot, but coming from Wisconsin and doing a race in California one February it was 64F and I almost died lol. Tarawera in a month will possibly be 80F and humid, and it's very cold here, I'm not sure how I'll train for that heat yet.

                                ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

                                Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                                Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

                                 

                                Pulse endurance 48 hr 175.3 miles

                                Bonnevile Backyard ultra 

                                Ute 100 Aug

                                24 hour loop race?

                                 

                                1234