2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 211 times)

Dave - I swear I'm not trying to be a dick here, I mean well when I say that you are presenting the symptoms of over-exerting yourself.

Is your sleep also suddenly slightly worse than usual ?

I found myself in that kind of  whole last year while training for Valencia, but thought that I just needed to power through it. What I really needed was to take a step back and have an easier week. By the way, that's what Steve told me back then, but I didn't listen 🤦‍♂️

Mark - 100% about the mileage trap. I"m the latest example after reducing the mileage a bit and finally being able to go sub 3 on account of not running myself into the ground.

Steve/ Mark / Down hill running - My software developer brain has thought this out. It must be a combination of the following factors:
- confidence from long hours of practice in similar terrain

- proper footwear
- Good balance
- good motor coordination/ eye foot coordination

- sufficient hip/overall core/leg strength
- Good mobility overall, especially hip and ankle mobility
- Be a bit of a dare-devil

Of the items listed above, the only items I can work on are wear the damn trail shoe and keep working on strength. I have comically bad motor coordination, balance, and mobility of both hips and ankles.

All that said, I'm fairly sure that if us 3 were in the same race, then Mark would blast through us in a downhill section at what he considers to be a very conservative/self preserving pace where as from me/Steve's perspective he must be nuts for going that fast LOL

MT - the benefits from walking barefoot and wearing low shoes take a long time to arrive. At least in my experience it was in the 2 to 3 years time frame till I could see, though granted I was not focusing on that, just mostly walking barefoot in the house and wearing low shoes when not running.
Ok, let's talk about diet.
That healthy smoothie might not be as healthy depending on the composition.
Think more nutrition macros and digestive health rather than hard rules about calories and what appears to be junk food or not.
Ex: A burger is meat with cheese, tomato, lettuce and bread. None of that is bad for you. The French fries are not ideal, but not the end of the world if it's once a week. The major issue with French fries is not the fat per se, we need a good amount of fat in our diet. It's the quality of the oil used to fry them, and also the low nutritional value.
Let's get straight to the examples you listed, always using the following rule of thumb:
Lean weight comes from good habits. In order to make good habits and break bad habits, small and subtle changes need to be applied. Never make sudden movements and never ever jump into something that you cannot keep forever as part of your life style.

1 - unhealthy breakfasts. I'm not sure what you're referring to here, I'm assuming it's some variation of bacon & eggs and pancakes with syrup ?
Cause that'd be an okay breakfast provided that you ran before the breakfast and that you add a bit of fiber and fruit there.
Eggs & bacon are good fat sources + help with your protein intake. Maybe sautée some kale to go with that to help with the digestion ?
Maybe sometimes opt for a fresh cheese like ricotta on top of the pancakes instead of syrup?

2 - what other side items can satisfy you that are not chips. In my non-expert view, if you eat a lot of chips it's probably because you have an oversized population of bacteria in your gut that lives off of that, that is, an unbalanced gut biome.
For instance, are roasted potatoes with olive oil an option ? To me they taste almost the same as fried potatoes, but in my view they're healthier and honestly, they taste better. Roasted carrots, cauliflower and broccoli also taste excellent and are good options for a side.

3 - Late night snacks. Once again, are there alternative food options at that time? I'd imagine any amount of fat that close to sleep cannot be good for your poor stomach. Nutritionists often recommend fruits like Kiwi as besides covering the crave, they also assist with good sleep.

4 - ordering take away. I'm fairly sure you can also order take away from alternative places, or adjust the items you consume often.
For instance Pizza. Is there Pizza Napolitana where you live ? (Wood oven, natural fermentation of the dough over 24h or longer, high quality tomatoes and olive oil, the original stuff). Cause that pizza you can eat every day and never have any issue whatsoever.
So maybe alternate between your regular Pizza Hut thing and a superior (both in flavour and in nutrition) Pizza Napolitana ?
Let's say you'd like to order burgers, you can always order without sauce and just the sandwich without the fries and the cola. That helps a lot!
If you look enough I'm sure you can find other healthier options like Italian piadinas, wraps, Brazilian tapiocas, plenty of tasty stuff that is not as bad.

5 - Some people will throw stones at me now, but have you considered Kombucha ? I've since come around about Kombuchas after trying it for a second time. It turns out some Kombuchas are horrible and some are better, who'd have thought.
Anyway, it's got a sweet flavour but very little sugar (last one I tried was only 5.5% sugar) and it's carbonated. Honestly it tastes just like any soda. But it's got those helpful bacteria that will help balance your gut biome.

Flavio - some people seem to fly down those steep downhill like mountain goats.  It's a skill I suspect takes a lot of practice and a low instinct for self-preservation.

Yes. Also experience eating shit and thinking quickly helps. I've been told I'm a good downhill runner, I know I think quickly of where my feet are going to go, and I have zero thoughts about what I put my foot on moving. Including when I eat shit.

EDIT: I had a non-runner friend tell me experience off roading/motorcycles/ATVs/4 wheelers helps in picking a line through the trails/rocks. I suppose the experience of having handlebars forcefully moved in a direction you're not anticipating provides life long feedback others don't acquire.

Flavio Footwear really does make a difference. I run in the Nike Pegasus Trail for dirt/rock stuff and it really does feel like the soles have more grip than the Nike Pegasus road shoe. Also, they seem to do better protecting my feet from light kicks into rocks. I had some more "race-like" shoes for trail running previously and smashed a rock with my toes and while trying to catch myself to avoid "eating shit" all I could think was how much pain I was in then "okay that's not broken." The muddy trail run I posted April 6 definately required some ankle strength as the trail would move as you ran on the sides trying to avoid the puddles, then the mud became "soupy" and extra wet. The only way to learn how to handle this is to go out and do it. The correct shoe makes a difference. It also helps out with ankle strength and coordination. I also understand at 40 years old it isn't the same as being...say..56.

My Week:

I've been doing trails more. Since I didn't get into TCS New York I don't have any races. There is a local ultra just after Mothers Day, and trails seem new to me, and provide a new challenge. Work is causing some depression in my life any time I think what I'm doing is going to be used as proof I'm not good enough at work (leading to a termination) and trails seem to take my mind away from it sometimes. It's also just a little more appealing than roads because trails just take more energy/effort/desire and the feedback is a lot more instant (i.e. eating shit means you suck so try harder at not sucking). I had a good talk with Krash about trail running and pulled in some of what I'd been told by Keen and even SeattleMax about trails. Essentially "do what you do for road marathons, but on trails."

I did two workouts. They were based on time instead of pace. First was 20 minutes tempo. Second was 10x2 minutes hard. Tempo was good because it took me out of my "casual comfort" area for the trail, and learned me some things about foot placement and my effort on the trail. I'd sandbag parts because I could, and on the tempo I wasn't allowed to.

Second workout was good because I did the 4th and 8th interval downhill to practice running downhill fast. In my research/discussions, I'd hear a lot of people don't practice running downhill, and the purpose is to be comfortable doing it, as well as learn to do it late in a race on tired legs and practice that pounding. In came thoughts of Revel Mt. Charleston recovery (It hurt so much to walk).

I've come to realize the work for road marathons is the same for trails. Longer road intervals were always capped at 5 minutes hard running so I can do the same on the trails. 40 second hard runs on the road are hard and so is running up 4% incline for 40 seconds. 4:35 hard uphill is comparable to 1,200m repeats.

Tempo runs are still by effort. When I did my tempo run Thursday I realized I place my foot funny on some turns, and the tempo effort on a trail I run frequently means I have to push in spots I apparently always thought were hard. The foot placement might be hard to explain, but I will try. Look at the letter "k" and focus on the top half of the letter. The top leg going up and out to the right is the hill/surface you're running. The vertical portion is your leg. This isn't how you'd EVER run a road. It probably leads to lots of lower ankle/achilleas pain. Getting the heel higher makes the foot flatter, and when you do this you'll feel it in your calves. It was like an epiphany came to me on the run. All I can say is while running uphill I was placing my foot flat. This makes sense for road running, but if you get up on the balls of your feet (your calves will start to burn after a while) you're actually making your foot more naturally flat (at least in my brain). This helps propel you UP the trail, instead of pushing OUT from the trail. I saw a video describing it when relating to going uphill and stepping on larger flat rocks. Also, EFFORT makes a big difference. Knowing what a 6/10 feels like is important. Everyone here knows not to go out too fast on race day, and it applies to trails. Putting in an 8 effort when you should put in a 6 really helps. I've been humbled on the trails and learned checking my ego/pride at the door and knowing "what the purpose of the workout" is really makes a difference.

Also, getting all the way up the hill on Monday, and again Friday to prove it wasn't just possible on a full rested body was awesome. It caused a lot of mental happiness for a moment as I'd set a goal a long time ago and achieved it MUCH faster than I expected to. All because I just kept trying things I could think of with none of them being (reviewed by my office before being implemented) not good enough.

I did stars because it counts as vertical gain. Total vertical gain for running was just over 7,800. Including stairs and walking made it just shy of 9,700. My "goal" was to be at 10k, and I could have earned it with a second trail run in my area. I skipped it to run with friends on my birthday.

Weekly for period: From: 01/04/2024 To 07/04/2024

Totals: Time: 11:18:49 - 🦅Imperial: 61.77 mi - Metric: 99.39 km

Something I thought of while running downhill is to be mindful of your feet inside your shoe. If you sit back and slow yourself down on steep downhills your feet will slide forward in your shoes. When this happens every step you're taking jams your toes into your shoes. Not enough to make it hurt, but enough that over time on a longer race you might cause some discomfort/pain. It isn't something I'd expect to happen on a road run simply because the downhills people run on roads they lean forward. I found I can somhow scoot my foot back a little bit on a shorter run, and for something like JFK 50 miler it might cause some later discomfort, or lost toenails.

Marby - Nice week.
I've used the "Race Screen" CIQ app for several years now, which does the same drift correction for pace/distance. It also gives your estimated finish time based on either current or average pace (you choose which).

Mark- Damn fast as always. Amazing job.

RP- Keep up the great work. 9k vert a week is a lot for right now. Since our race isn't till July. It is still a great goal. If you don't get, don't beat yourself up. I got in 9k vert last week but I got in 4 trail days. Vert boot camp I call it. Training down hill is great. I pound my quads from time to time. I can't run the next day but it will help in the long run. I find myself on my toes going up hill and down. Trail running is always a work in progress. Finding out what works and doesn't for you. Trail running is a eating and drinking competition. If you can eat and drink lots you win. Some look at calories and others at Carbs. I try to eat and drink on training runs, the same as races.

My friends tell people to listen to what I say when it comes to trail running, but then take it down a notch. The training I do works for me. Maybe not for everyone. You are doing great with your training. Don't push too hard too soon. Burn out happens on trail too.

My week: This is my first full week back to running. I am still keeping my uphill treadmill run alive. I had a few days off this week for the kids spring break. Got in as much trail running as I could and sitll take it easy.

M:7.5 miles 1100 vert. Most of the trail was free of snow. The upper 2 miles were completly covered.

T: 3 easy outside. Then 3 miles at 3% and then 1 mile at 5%. Ran at a 9:05 pace on the TM.

W:7 easy miles street mapping. Ran my 1000th mile for the year.

T: 7.1 miles on trail. 4.3 miles to the peak with 3200 ft vert. Only the first 1,5 was free of snow. Most of the snow was hard and I could power hike up on top of it.

F:9 miles of fun trail. 1827 ft vert.

S: 13 miles trail 2100 ft vert. All runable. The last few miles were downhill. Dropped to a 6 min mile the last half mile.

Quads are more sore from this week than any of my hard weeks for my last race. Different type of running.

Belatedly checking in, after being swamped the past week or so.

45 miles running, 1000 yards swimming, and 90 minutes pool-running.

M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
T: 10 miles with some random strides. Sports massage in evening.
W: 10 miles, including a track workout of 2K, 3x1200, 2x200 in 9:24, 5:23, 5:18, 5:16, 52, and 52 (2:2x-2:3x recovery between each).
Th: 6.5 miles very easy (10:10) on trails plus some leg strengthwork; streaming Pilates in evening.
F: Upper body weights/core and 9 miles very easy (9:15) plus drills and strides.
Sa: 9.5 miles including a 6400m track tempo in 28:20 (7:16/7:07/7:04/6:54) followed by leg strengthwork.
Su: 1000 yards swimming.

I bailed on the Tuesday workout because I was having a bad day, and my legs were just too stiff to move fast.  A sports massage that night helped stuff calm down a lot, and a second try on Wednesday morning went much better despite having been run in a gale.

Because I ran the Tuesday track workout on Wednesday, I pushed the Friday tempo workout back to Saturday, which ended up being a ridiculously windy day.  My tempo was a slightly slower than I would have liked, but I'm fairly certain that the wind was costing me at least a second or two each lap.

I spent a lot of time on my feet on Sunday cheering at the Cherry Blossom 10 Miler, so I skipped running that day and swam instead.  Managed to do 2x50 yards in 46 and 45 seconds, so I was excited about that (not fast for a real swimmer; decently fast for me).

I fly out to Boston on Friday morning, with my para-athlete classification appointment scheduled for Saturday afternoon.

 

Downhill running - as someone who used to be an excellent downhill runner and is now an awful downhill runner trying to remember how to do it:

- staying relaxed and fluid is key,  In particular, your knees need to be soft and flexed, and your ankles and hips need to be mobile.

- you need to be able to extend your stride behind you and to turn your legs over quickly to take full advantage of a downhill

- core strength, especially transvers abdominus, is key.

- two tricks are a) think about kicking your heels up behind you as you run downhill (like butt kicks) and b) try to have your foot hit the ground at the same angle it would if the ground was straight.

The cadence point is a really important one. You've got to be able to get the leg turnover going to take full advantage.

Other than that, I have noticed a lot of snowboarding principles apply remarkably well to downhill running as well.  As well as keeping your legs relaxed and knees soft, you want to be looking down the hill and keeping your posture aligned.  I always think about this as leaning into the downhill as the natural tendency is to lean back, although the reality is that you are just trying to line your posture up with the slope of the hill. "Don't break at the waist" is a classic snowboarding phrase that always comes to mind lol.

ALL

I just sent my boss my two week notice.