Forums >Racing>Competitive Jerks Racing and Training - 2023
Mother of Cats
OTOH, Virginia is definitely trying to make its own name in the insane driver world. BREAKING: Numerous crashes block I-395 after tractor trailer hit-and-run suspect steals Arlington ambulance | ARLnow.com
OTOH, Virginia is definitely trying to make its own name in the insane driver world.
BREAKING: Numerous crashes block I-395 after tractor trailer hit-and-run suspect steals Arlington ambulance | ARLnow.com
I would also like to talk about Maryland drivers some more, because it turns out that this guy was from Maryland. It all makes sense now.
a) guy totally loses it, somehow gets hold of a water truck, and starts to ram it into cars on the highway.
b) after running that truck into the ground, he runs away and hides. When first responders get to the scene, he then somehow manages to steal one of the ambulances and goes on Grand Theft Auto mission #2.
In total, he managed to collide with at least 14 different vehicles. Much of it caught on video.
(CK - you may recognize some of the areas in the video - it's the Crystal City area where you stayed in January)
This is the epitome of a Maryland driver.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Flavio - as trail events go it was actually more straightforward than the others in the series have generally been. A lot less sharp turns and less technical overall. That 9 hour bus ride sounds miserable lol.
mmerkle - they do AG awards for the series, not overall ones. I've got the AG one locked up. There's still 1 race to go, but if they did a series one I'd likely end up second (unless the guy in first, who is the guy I beat yesterday, doesn't run the last race). And damn... that jellyfish sting sounds rough!
Steve - no change in strategy... after dying pretty badly in the first race I've been pretty conservative at the start since. I probably sped up once I got past him to try and keep a gap lol. Where is the Canterbury Road Champs being held? Hopefully a pretty flat course (not sure you have any other kind in Christchurch?).
Darkwave - we have a general election here in NZ in 2 months time and already sick of hearing about that so yeah I'm all for running discussion too. Anyways I agree with you that I'd far rather have good weather for a key workout than a long run.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Hot Weather Complainer
It's on a smooth asphalt road in Bottle Lake Forest, designed to be fast, although there's not enough road for more than a short out and back. Oska is apparently working on how to improve the course, but the fast field and long flat straights might make up for the turns. It's a 3pm start for the 10km too which will be different for me on a Saturday. I better discuss my plan for the day with the coach...
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF
Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54
Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Timaru Ten October 26, 2024
I can't believe it. Biden Trump running for the president just showing how irresponsible the guy is. He is a laughing stock for the whole World and the fact nobody can tell him that (he obviously is not capable to understand it himself) just proves the system is so bad and maybe irreparable - that it's not funny at all for the long time by now... And the worst part is that many people will go and vote for Biden Trump only because they are so brainwashed by this stupid GAME that rules a Democrat Republican should vote for a candidate from Democrats Republicans...
I can't believe it. Biden Trump running for the president just showing how irresponsible the guy is. He is a laughing stock for the whole World and the fact nobody can tell him that (he obviously is not capable to understand it himself) just proves the system is so bad and maybe irreparable - that it's not funny at all for the long time by now...
And the worst part is that many people will go and vote for Biden Trump only because they are so brainwashed by this stupid GAME that rules a Democrat Republican should vote for a candidate from Democrats Republicans...
But I would very much like to keep this thread running-related.
Dave
When marathon training, I alternate weekends with 20+ milers and weekends with marathon pace workouts. I'm actually fine with the 20+ milers being in hot conditions because even if I can't pick up the pace much due to weather, I've accomplished a lot just by getting 20+ miles in. It's much more important to me to have reasonable weather for the marathon pace workouts.
I’ve tended to do roughly the same. I am always tempted to do more of the workout variety...just because. But it is reassuring that you do this. I am still deciding about next weekend—either 18 w/10 MP or a steady-paced 22 miler. You may have pushed me towards just pounding out the long one.
Lately I've been into the idea of doing some MP work during the week, and then some more during my LR, preferably after I'm 10+ miles in so that I know I can do it on tired legs. I'm a bit confused about MP work, because my understanding is that the purpose is to dial in what that pace feels like. But other than that, you aren't benefitting much more than at easy pace, and you also aren't running fast enough to get the benefits of tempo work. I worry that I tend to neglect MP work during my cycles. So I'm trying to address that.
Marky - congrats on the W! I still have little interest in trails, and this course description did not do much to change that. What’s your overall plan on road vs trails? How much do you need to adjust your training?
Honestly I'm just using the trail events for a different training stimulus to mix things up over winter. I've done almost no specific training for these trail events, other than running more hills than I normally would. But the trails really do provide some good training benefits. You have to work a lot harder when the surface isn't giving you the same bounce you would get on the road or footpath.
Hansons basic plans put MP miles in the middle of the week, IIRC; I did try those plans in my early days. But since then just keep them at the end of LRs, and target LT-ish pace midweek. Yeah it’s also my understanding that they don’t have a particular physiological benefit. For me, two purposes:
1. Muscle memory for my legs
2. Effort required is an indicator of my ability to hold it on race day
Problem Child
As said above ‘Marathon pace’ work is to build confidence you can run the pace, and so you can test out things in race-like conditions. New shoes? New gels? Running into a 20 mph headwind? Chaffee nipples from a specific shirt? Overloading yourself with caffeine and/or meals? All this can be done with 6-10 miles of marathon specific work. I’m sure there is some ‘high aerobic’ benefit of marathon pace.
for me it’s all about that confidence boost. If you asked me to run 6:50/mi pace for 10 miles I would tell you I couldn’t at this point. Maybe not even a 10k.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Vote Blue No Matter Who
vs
Vote Red Until I’m Dead
every. Four. Years. The names can be changed. Bush. Obama. Gore. Johnson. Eisenhower. Grant. Polk. Taft. Kennedy. Clinton. Trump. Schwarzenegger. Reagan. Cleveland.
Mmmm Bop
Yep, during some of my previous long long runs, MP would be at the end to simulate that feeling after mile 20 in a marathon (eg, 26 miles w/last 10k @ MP). Generally I like to do some LRs with threshold intervals at slightly faster than MP (eg, 3x4 miles)
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
In full disclosure, I should note that in cooler weather, I will usually do my long runs progressive, ideally with the last 7 miles at marathon effort (which, if I have good weather, should be marathon pace). It's just that the marathon effort work at the end of the 20+ miler is in my mind secondary to simply getting the time on my feet in.
You've tapped into a big debate here. I believe even Jack Daniels has gone both ways on this. In an earlier version JD's Running Formula, he had this cool chart with how to adjust tempo pace for different duration tempos, with 20 minutes at his prescribed tempo pace on one end and 60 minutes at marathon pace on the other end. I personally love that chart, especially since I found that it perfectly matched how I tend to adjust tempos by feel when extending the duration. (We all love the documentation that supports and validates what we do anyway).
That chart isn't in later versions of the JDRF, and I think he also dropped the language on the benefits of training at marathon pace.
Magness and Marcus had a interesting discussion of training at marathon pace here (I think that's the right episode). Marcus specifically was not a fan, for the reasons you spell out above.
I do think that at some point it's individual. It's also important to remember that marathon pace/effort means totally different things for athletes of different speeds. For a 2:20 runner, marathon pace is not that far off of tempo pace. For a 3:30 runner, it occupies a half-way spot between tempo and easy. For a 5 hour runner, marathon pace IS easy pace.
Merkle - The last 20 minutes felt awful, as usual heh. I wonder if at some point between now and December this will improve somehow.Sorry to hear about the Jellyfish
Dave - I love your "whatever goes" approach to training.
Steve - Good luck on that 10k, hopefully as it's a 10k champ race the course will be accurate.
DW - Damn, that dude was intent on wrecking stuff. I've only ever been to Rockville, MD and Washington DC in that area, from memory the drivers were very polite and calm ( I didn't drive there, this was only observation of other people driving ).The drivers in Manhattan though were insanely aggressive.
Politicians - Politicians are like diapers, you've got to change them often and for the exact same reason 😁
Are we there, yet?
I've never been an advocate of MP runs. a) How do I know what MP is? My actual marathon times are rarely what calculators say they should be.b) MP falls within the range of aerobic runs, too slow for tempo or LT, so how is it different from any other easy run?c) MP under what conditions? ideal? expected race? current?
d) If you go by effort, effort at what stage of the race? Early miles are easy, final miles are hard.
If the supposed purpose is to get a feel of what MP is, it's a poor method and does little to prepare you what a marathon feels like. Unless you extend your MP runs to 20 miles or so. A good progression run would be better preparation as you need to increase your effort over the last miles as you would over the last miles of the race.
03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles
05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09 06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles 10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour
Mark YOU WON?!?!?!?!!? CONGRATS!!! unless I read something wrong. I saw you holding up the number 1 in the picture so I'm assuming you won a trail race.
Flavio man....your spot on. It should almost be a meme posted all over the internet so it goes viral and people enjoy the humor....because it is true.
Marathon pace I recall during a half marathon training plan, before I'd ever run a marathon, reading that marathon pace was only helpful to marathon runners. It is if you use it as race pace. I have a "friend" who I not longer associate with who uses "Marathon pace" to describe "any time I run at PR Marathon Pace" because as we know it is "a pace you could run a marathon at" and there is no expiration date. I won't call 6:40/mi pace "marathon pace" because it isn't. It's what I ran Boston at, or CIM, (Honestly I forget right now) and I couldn't run a 6:40 marathon if you paid me to, and made it downhill on a treadmill.
Darkwave Every single time I see JDRF I go with the research foundation.
My Week
I actually put up a good week. Friday I skipped the lunch run because I had a 2:30 meeting for a review, planning an upcoming trip, and I lost track of time. The review was a reason I just left the house at night and went jogging. SSDD
I THOUGHT about doing something for speed. I'm just not motivated apparently. I can't say I've felt this way before. Since strava is giving me free premium I found out they will suggest routes. So I went and hit some trails I'd never hit before just because I could. It was cool and kinda fun. I still don't think I can run trails as hard as I can roads. It's just a different mindset. Sunday I invited myself to run with a friend I hadn't run with for a long time, and it was cool. Something about a 5:30am run after spending a LOT of Saturday at a county fair made me exhausted the rest of the day.
I also started "stair climbing" the 5 story building I work in twice a week. This was strictly for a vertical gain goal I don't have. I struggled with accepting anything other than trail/hill running as being acceptable vertical gain. I told myself based on the heart rate climbing the stairs is similar to hiking. My pace is the same, I'm not pushing hard but I'm not stopping to take a selfie every 1/2 floor, and if people in the flat land of America can hike 60 stories to get to their cubicle as vertical gain then it counts for me too.
Oh, and I have the track bar bracket tacked on.
So I turned this...back into this...and I also fixed this. It has hit a point of "I'll work on it when I'm motivated" and I thought I'd have it done by CIM, but I haven't been so motivated I want to spend 4 hours working on it every night. Staying up until 11:30pm and getting 5 hours of sleep wouldn't be enjoyable at any point. This is why i need a special workspace, or a different hobby like RC Cars...oh wait.