Forums >Racing>2024 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
Mother of Cats
Darkwave - did you manage to go to the grocery store after your 800m? And - if I do 200m hill reps but they are rather gentle (4%) - and I want to work on strength and gait - would you recommend doing shorter but steeper hills? I got the 200m distance from the Ingebrigtsens who run their hill every Saturday and I believe it was around 200m. And very impressed on how you managed the waterfall start. I would have been all over the place.
Honestly, I think both have their place.
For working on strength/gait, I think 200m or longer on a 4% incline or less is better. And don't go all out - 5K-10K effort is great for these. You're just using the hill to encourage good form.
Short steep hill repeats have their place for developing power (I need to add them back into my routine). I wouldn't do them as a workout unto themselves, but treat them more like strides during a run (with complete recovery). Brad Hudson was a big proponent of these - you can buy his book, or read here for a quick summary - Run Faster: Six Adaptive Running Techniques | Runner's World (runnersworld.com)
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Waltons ThreadLord
Upcoming Races
06/12 Frederick - Scotch Plains 5k
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming race(s): Firecracker 4-miler, 7/4
Fred - please add:6/23 - watsonc123 - Wellington Half Marathon
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
My week:
Monday 3.6
Tuesday 6
Wednesday am 5x5 min HM effort, pm 3.5 easy
Thursday rest
Friday 7
Saturday 6.4
Sunday 6.5 with 6x200 + 4x300
JamesD, so the temps bounce around where you are? Here there have been some mornings where it's still chilly and then others where I sweat basically walking out the door.
Watson, cross country races can be tough. I did one that was really challenging for being completely flat. So many roots.
Mark, glad Miss 7 enjoyed the steam crossings.
Darkwave, OMG, no, don't prove the CDC right that raw cookie dough is dangerous. I take my chances with that.
MJ, to add on the hills, Hudson really likes hills. He also has some interval workouts early on in his plans where you do 8 x 1min at 5k effort on hills.
JamesD
Sort of, though it's more like there are some mornings when it's mild and others when it's hot & humid at sunrise. I don't think we'll see chilly again until November. The variations in the temperatures of my runs have more to do with the time of day - it was 93/34 when I ran late Sunday afternoon, but only around 84/29 when I ran at 11am today. And after 93, 84 really does feel like "only" 84. Acclimation is real: Sunday's run felt very difficult, but I checked my spreadsheet & found that last year I had run longer and/or faster several times at higher temperature+dewpoint readings, but all of them were in July & August when I was used to the conditions.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Patrick's Downtown Race to Summer (a.k.a Scotch Plains 5k) - 6/12/24
This was my 5th running of the race. Evening races in June are always a risk with weather. In 2022 it was 81º (27C) and in 2017 it was 82º (28C). Last year we got lucky with 72º (22C) and I ran 24:42, which turned out to be the last time I'd run a sub-25 5k.
I didn't sleep well the night before and wound up taking a nap at lunch time. I still felt tired around 5:30 and a little stuffy (and feared I might be catching the cold my son's had for over a week). Nevertheless, I knew things often change for me once the race starts, so we (my son and I) set out for the race. I ran a shortened warmup of ¾ mile, then went to the start/finish area to join my son and RP to watch the kids' 1-mile fun run. Some fast kids there, and some cute little ones running alone or with their parents.
The temperature was 75º (24C) though the humidity was low. I figured I would try for sub-25 and told my son and RP that I'd know by the time I ran ½ mile whether I'd have any chance of that. Last year's splits were 7:52, 8:15 (the halfway point has a hill climb), and 8:01.
There was no timing mat at the start, which probably helped as it allowed a nice, wide lineup - important because there were a lot of kids right up front on the inside line. I was two or three people back from the line, set to take the outside of the first turn. The race started and we were all off, with kids darting zig-zag through the crowd. I purposely went fast for the first 50 yards just to clear the crowd. I purposely went wide on the first turn and saw that a kid had wiped out on the inside of the turn (there were three adults standing over her so I couldn't see much). Having gone wide, I was on the inside of the next turn. One more turn and we were on a long straight, wide street, so I could settle down and focus on keeping a consistent pace. I saw my son pull away in the distance and saw RP about 20 yards ahead of me. At the ½ mile point I was running sub-8 and feeling fine, so I decided to go for it.
Mile 1 is deceptive as it feels like it's flat, but it's ever so slightly uphill, so I had to focus on not slowing down. I was mostly successful and my first split was 7:57; 5 seconds behind last year, but still in good shape for sub-25. Around the 1¼ mile mark I started slowing down and I'm not sure why. We weren't at the hill yet but I was feeling stressed and tired; part of me was ready to give up the sub-25 attempt. The hill started at 1½ miles and got steep a few hundredths after that. I opted not to charge up the hill as I didn't want to be winded halfway through the race. I got to the top in decent shape, though I'd slowed to a 9:30-ish pace. However, RP was still about 20 yards ahead of me and I could see I'd gained ground on my son, so I stepped on the gas going down the hill.
We got back down to the flat part of town, slight downhill to the finish, just as the first mile had been slightly uphill. I was gaining on both RP and my son and was keeping my pace around 7:55 - 8:00. Mile 2 clocked in at 8:21, which I knew was from the hill, but which I knew also wasn't great news for my sub-25 attempt. I'd really have to push in the last mile. I caught up with RP around the 2¼ mile mark, just as he was passing my son (who had slowed to a walk, suffering from a chest cold and a stitch). RP had been saying "Hi" and waving to people along the route (he lives in town), so he wasn't exactly running all out and he picked up his pace to stay with me. He said a few words of greeting to me, but I was breathing hard and didn't have breath to spare for a response. We ran together for the next ½ mile, with me working hard to keep my pace and telling myself I could do this. The course made a couple of turns to run 3 sides around a block (adding distance to get the course to 5k) and somewhere on the last turn I lost RP. Mile 3 came in at 8:02, which was good, but didn't make up time from earlier in the race.
With the final 0.1 to go, I was just focused on running hard. I didn't look at my watch at all as I didn't want to know how close I was to 25 minutes. I made the last turn into the finish chute and with less than 50 yards to go could see the clock at 24:44. I summoned whatever speed I had left in my dash to the finish, watching the clock count down and not sure whether I'd make it. Since the clock was positioned a few feet in front of the finish arch, I lost sight of it at the very end, so I made sure to hit the stop button on my watch as soon as I crossed the mat. 24:57.78. Yes! RP finished with a clock time of just over 25, but he started behind me and his watch had him sub-25. Despite taking a walk break, my son finished in 25:30.
Key for me was keeping up my pace, especially over the last mile. Going sub-25 was nice. Being able to keep my focus for the whole race was very rewarding.
Congrats on the sub-25, Fred, especially since you weren't feeling it beforehand. You mentioned a shortened warmup. Do you usually run strides before a 5K in addition to a shakeout jog? I find that if I don't do a little faster running before the start of a 5K, it takes much more effort to start out quickly. I like to finish my strides about 10-15 minutes before the start so I'm fully recovered. There have been times when starts have been delayed and it's been half an hour and I still feel like I get a benefit from having done the strides.
James - thanks. Usually, my warmup runs are about a mile. Sometimes I add a few strides near the end, but not consistently - it depends on my mood. I don't find getting up to speed to be an issue for me usually. On Wednesday, I cut the warmup to ¾ mile due to the heat and didn't do any strides. Mostly, I've found that as I get older, I need the warmup just to get my legs moving and the blood flowing to my muscles; and to work out any stiffness. Not like my 17-year-old who can practically roll out of bed and start sprinting.
It’s getting a little warmer each week, and I’m still not quite used to it. Sunday and then Saturday were the two worst (by T+DP) days of the summer so far, and I did one fewer lap around the park (1.5 miles) than I had planned each time. Still, I can tell I’m getting acclimated and would be fine pretty soon if it would stop getting warmer.
Bought a copy of the “The Easy Interval Method” book that gets attention on LetsRun and will see if I can use any of its ideas while preparing for my two August 5Ks.
Sun - 7 miles in park PM @8:46, temp 93/34, TDP 161
Mon - 60 minutes pool running
Tues - 10.1 miles in park AM @8:29, temp 84/29, TDP ~138 - felt pleasant
Weds - 6 miles very slow TM (72:20PM) + 0:40 walk breaks/6 min
Thurs - 8.6 miles in park PM @8:33, temp 93/34, TDP 151
Fri - 80 minutes pool running
Sat - 8.6 miles in park AM @8:34, temp 90/32, TDP 158
Total - 40.3 miles
YTD - 33.3 mpw
Not a bad week. Tough 400's workout on Thursday and I was still feeling it a couple days later. Enjoyed my long run this morning though, I've mixed up the routes a little bit lately and today was hillier than normal. There's a particular weird kind of joy that comes through slogging up some unfamiliar hills in the dark at 6am in winter.
Next week is the last week of building up, then a recovery week.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Fred - sub 25
James and Mark - nice weeks.
My week was good. Three short strength sessions, plus below:
This !!! Although some places do sell edible cookie dough FYI.
Half Crazy K / dw I do think allergies are part of my issue, and I don't normally have Spring allergies, and if I do they aren't usually this bad.
Fredford Well done on that sub 25. I like that you race a lot.
My Week
Had the Hashawa XC race this week (part of an annual summer series). Even though it FELT like I was going to beat last years time (18:56), I was off by 40 seconds. I wasn't alone though, as a handful of people I spoke to also had a slow day. I'm not really upset about it. The 2 mile clearly shows that my fitness is better than it was last year. Ran a social run Saturday where I was helping pace two colleagues. One of them started having some knee and calf issues so the last two miles were a walk. I think the insanely slow miles helped me recover though, because Hashawa left my solei mad sore.
Mondayy 3.8 easy + strength
Tuesday rest
Wednesday am 6.5 pm strength
Friday 6 with 3x5min tempo + 3x200 pm strength
Saturday 3 with strides
Sunday 1 mile w/u + super hilly 5k. I would not have picked this race on my own. It's support a local hospital NICU and we know someone whose son spent a few weeks there this spring. The hospital sits on top of a hill, I didn't think they'd have us come up the main entrance. They did.
06/22 Darkwave Garry Bjorklund (Grandmas) Half-Marathon
06/22 dpschumacher -Bjorkund Half Marathon (Master's debut)
06/23 - watsonc123 - Wellington Half Marathon
Sorry I've been a bit absent in terms of posting. Some other stuff going on right now that's taking my focus. Good luck to this weekend's racers.
JamesD, I tried a few strides before my 5k because I could run in a gated off parking area. I'll try it next time I do a flatter course. Our heat just got uncomfortable.
Fred, nice job on the sub 25.
Mark, here I think people are up earlier right now because it's hot. If you want to exercise outside, first thing in the morning or really late in the day.
Watson, nice week!
mmerkle, one of the cupcake stores I go to sells edible cookie dough (and brownie batter). I'll be near there today when I go pick up my car from the shop. Did you wind up with any storm damage last week?