Forums >Racing>2024 The Waltons: Racing & Training Thread
Good points MT
James nothing like a bit of stress to affect sleep !
I saw a documentary on the German women now and they all seemed lovely. I want to not like people who doped but they seemed like regular folks.
I'm sure they are paying the price in some way with all the internet stuff out there on doping.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
I suspect Nike and Adidas have some athletes using customised shoes. They'll sometimes be running in prototypes of the next generation, I suspect they have multiple prototypes and they've tested on their athletes which prototype works best for that person. And one of those prototypes become the next version mass released.
The World Athletics rules on shoes are quite weak. And given how important the shoe company sponsorship is, I doubt it will change materially.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Two thoughts: 1) According to Jack Daniels, you can improve VO2Max with shorter intervals or longer intervals; the key is to limit the recovery time so that your heart rate is still elevated some when you start the next interval. I suspect that one reason that longer intervals work better in practice is that if you let the recoveries get too long, you still get some work done at VO2Max with each interval. Not the case with short intervals. 2) The big thing for a while regarding VO2Max work was "Billat 30/30" intervals - 30 seconds at VO2Max pace and 30 seconds jog. According to research/labs/etc - this type of workout was great for improving VO2Max. However, I've never seen a top runner use 30/30s in their training. This may be because there is a gap between the lab and the real world. It may also be because VO2Max is only one of many components of fast running, and arguably not as important as things like running economy and lactate threshold. The current training trends - the Norwegian threshold stuff and Tinman training - seem to downplay VO2Max work to focus on other components - it's essentially the pendulum swinging away. It will return. Personally, I think there is no one perfect way of training - we're all too different. When you see a particular training structure working well for a group, there's probably some selection bias there - athletes who thrive on that type of training gravitate to and stay with that coach, while others leave. The overall trick is to figure out a) what you respond to well (which is often what you also recover easily from) and b) what you don't respond well to (and tends to run you into the ground). Then structure your training to emphasize a) while making sure to include just enough of b).
Two thoughts:
1) According to Jack Daniels, you can improve VO2Max with shorter intervals or longer intervals; the key is to limit the recovery time so that your heart rate is still elevated some when you start the next interval. I suspect that one reason that longer intervals work better in practice is that if you let the recoveries get too long, you still get some work done at VO2Max with each interval. Not the case with short intervals.
2) The big thing for a while regarding VO2Max work was "Billat 30/30" intervals - 30 seconds at VO2Max pace and 30 seconds jog. According to research/labs/etc - this type of workout was great for improving VO2Max. However, I've never seen a top runner use 30/30s in their training. This may be because there is a gap between the lab and the real world. It may also be because VO2Max is only one of many components of fast running, and arguably not as important as things like running economy and lactate threshold.
The current training trends - the Norwegian threshold stuff and Tinman training - seem to downplay VO2Max work to focus on other components - it's essentially the pendulum swinging away. It will return.
Personally, I think there is no one perfect way of training - we're all too different. When you see a particular training structure working well for a group, there's probably some selection bias there - athletes who thrive on that type of training gravitate to and stay with that coach, while others leave.
The overall trick is to figure out a) what you respond to well (which is often what you also recover easily from) and b) what you don't respond well to (and tends to run you into the ground). Then structure your training to emphasize a) while making sure to include just enough of b).
Forgot to respond to this. This is a beautiful response (as always from you on training discussions). If I'm not mistaken though, improving VO2 max can help improve lactate threshold. I dind't mean to imply that everyone must do long VO2 max intervals, but that they're worth considering if you can manage since they seem to be so effective. I'm also biased because they work well for me. Don't get me wrong though, I hate them. Oddly, I feel pretty charged after I suffer through a VO2 max session.
Fredford66 I love that attitude heading towards the race. I tend to complain about the weather unless it's between 45 and 55 F with no wind. Wishing you the best of luck.
Not that's it's a goal race, but I'll pre-complain about the weather for tomorrow's ParkRun. Forecast is 23C at 8am start, probably moderately humid too. Change of rain, which would be very, very nice to get.
Sorry, looking at the World Athletics rules, my prototype statement could be wrong. Of course the shoe companies may or may not break these rules.
Watson good luck at Parkrun. Warm muggy mornings are the norm here currently.
The shoes in road races that elites use are supposed to be available to the public for x amount of weeks prior. Hence the $500 5 Oz addidas shoes that last for barely one race released recently 🙄
Stack height under 40mm but I think that is for US 9 so bigger shoes can scale up.
Waltons ThreadLord
Thank you. Unfortunately, the parks commission couldn't commit to clearing the snow from the roads and parking lots in time, so they told the RD to cancel the event.
5k 23:48.45 (3/22); 4M 31:26 (2/22); 5M 38:55 (11/23); 10k 49:24 (10/22); 10M 1:29:33 (2/24); Half 1:48:32 (10/22); Marathon 4:29:58 (11/23)Upcoming races: Running is Back 10k, 5/12; Greta's Run 5k, 5/19
Do your parks overlap with schools? I know this sounds like a weird question, but here we have stand alone county parks plus school & recreation sites. Basically, if a school has playing fields, it is used after hours for county sponsored sports. The recreation department tends to follow the schools for bad weather to stay consistent.
Fred sorry to hear your race was canceled. I bet you have another next weekend
My 3rd week of fast/easy/fast/easy/fast/easy went well.
The easy days are all recovery pace heart rate.
I haven't introduced a proper longish run yet.
Thought I had a quad strain but a bruise came up so must have whacked it somewhere.
The Goat was tough. As expected there were some really, REALLY steep hills (at one point you literally climb up alongside a waterfall), but unless you were a very experienced technical trail runner (which I am not), I'd say maybe only around a third was actually runnable. Apart from the first couple of km, it was rare to get a runnable stretch of more than 300-400m before some sort of challenge. Lots of loose rock, a bit of mud, about 6 or 7 stream crossings, and the downhills almost ended up being slower than the uphills unless you had a distinct lack of self preservation. It's not really until you're climbing up that final hill and you look back and see Lake Surprise (no really it is called that) around 6km off in the distance with a couple massive ridges in between you realise that just completing this is some sort of achievement. It's crazy to think I've run marathons, more than twice as long, in less time. Easily the toughest trail event I've done by some margin.
This will be controversial but in some ways, events like this are tougher than a marathon. You don't get the chance to switch your brain off and just run, or hit anything vaguely resembling a rhythm. There's always some sort of challenge to deal with and you don't really get any respite from that. Some of them (like the waterfall climb) include moments where you realise that if you slip and misjudge things, you actually could get seriously hurt or worse - and that's after you've been battling away for two and a half hours already (at least in my case). Tapping out isn't even an option because most of it's so remote there's no road access apart from around the start and finish.
Pretty proud I did it, tbh. It was very satisfying to complete, as well as fun, in a weird way, had some incredible scenery to enjoy and that medal rates as one of the most hard-earned in my collection.
A few tight spots today and a few scrapes, but luckily seem to have escaped more or less intact. My next HM race is in 3 weeks and is generally regarded as quite hilly... but this will put it in perspective lol.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!
Up next: Still working on that...
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
I agree with this completely. There's a winter trail run near me that I've done. 10 miles with 1,000' (300m) of elevation that takes me longer to run than it takes me to run a half marathon, so I could easily see how an even tougher course would take you twice as long as a marathon. I'm in awe of the trail runners who do the loop 5 times. Congratulations on completing the race!
I think the rule is that shoes have to be reasonably accessible to everyone. A limited run might count, a single prototype (like Kipchoge wore for Breaking 2) probably wouldn't.
Mark, nice job on the trail race. Not a controversial opinion to me at all. Pretty much every trail race I've done, I have at a minimum tripped over something, usually on the flattest and easiest part. You really have to pay attention to every step and picking up your feet.
Mark - nice race. Well raced.
Re tough trail races v marathon, I've heard it both ways as to which is tougher.
My week was, and warm, and humid. I've had some mild PF which strength training aggrevated. ParkRun was about 22/23 C and humid, that plus slightly tired legs meant I was at the slower range of what I hoped. Annoyingly on the run home there was considerable rain which would have been very nice 30 minutes earlier. Today a warm and humid trail run, with some hiking.
Two strength sessions, plus below for the month:
Watson nice week. My daughter felt her 1st earthquake yesterday in Wellington.
Mark I wondered what all the goat emojis were about
I didn't realize you were in a race. I thought you might have done a solo run. I'm curious to know if you gave it a full effort as I'm sure you are faster than alot of those who finished in front of you ?