Low HR Training

"Expose Your Slow Twitchers" Daily Maffetone and/or Low-HR Training Reports (Read 23292 times)

Docket_Rocket


Former Bad Ass

    It's not a chest strap and it's normal for me to spike like that sometimes.  I couldn't breathe well due to congestion so it might have been that.

     

    My area is also hilly so it might have been an uphill that made me go up.

    Damaris

    SD_BlackHills


      Oh ok, hills will do that.  Congestion will do that too.  I'm curious if you see similar spikes on a somewhat steady treadmill run?

       

      I did just such a run on my treadmill this morning at steady 1% incline.

       

      HR Mile Splits:

      Mile 1:  105 bpm

      Mile 2:  109 bpm

      Mile 3:  111 bpm

      Mile 4:  112 bpm

      Mile 5:  109 bpm (slowed treadmill down a bit - it tends to slowly speed up as it heats up)

      Mile 6:  111 bpm

      Mile 6.3:  110 bpm

       

      Avg HR = 110 bpm

      Max Reading = 124 bpm

       

      The spike I saw was somewhere in Mile 6 and held a steady 115 for a couple of minutes before dropping back down to 110ish.  Weird.  Our bodies are just weird.  I bet at that time I saw something on TV that pissed me off or something.

      Docket_Rocket


      Former Bad Ass

        Nope, the only time I see a spike on the TM is when the HR monitor gets stuck on strides.  It happens sometimes.

        Damaris

        SD_BlackHills


          Nope, the only time I see a spike on the TM is when the HR monitor gets stuck on strides.  It happens sometimes.

           

          How do you do strides on a treadmill?  Isn't it kinda scary?

           

          I've tried bumping up the speed with the + button that takes a lot of button presses when my arms would otherwise want to be in a running motion for those speeds.  The other thing that I've done is just hit the absolute speed button on the side but they are only in increments of 1 mph to just go straight to and the belt accelerates so fast that it scares the hell out of me.

           

          My stride speed outside ends up being quite a bit faster than on the treadmill and I think that's simply due to comfort and there being no threat outside of becoming pancake-asized on my back wall.  

          Docket_Rocket


          Former Bad Ass

            Nope. My TM does not move at all. Super stable.

             

            But I meant foot stride, lol. Sometimes the HR monitor stops detecting the heart and instead is giving you the stride rate.

            Damaris

            SD_BlackHills


              Nope. My TM does not move at all. Super stable.

               

              But I meant foot stride, lol. Sometimes the HR monitor stops detecting the heart and instead is giving you the stride rate.

               

              Oh cadence lock.  Gotcha.  Ironically, I've never had that happen with my arm band.  Mine will occasionally fail low.  What's weird is, when it fails, it locks into 85 bpm and just stays there until it somehow resumes working.  I've brought it up with Scosche customer support but they just suggested I return it.  I know that won't help cuz I've had 2 of them and they both did it so I assume it's a design issue.  Fortunately, it's a rare occurance.

               

              As far as the treadmill goes, mine is also super stable.  It's just frightening to me to do such large accelerations / decelerations on a moving belt while pushing buttons.

              SD_BlackHills


                Less than 4 weeks til race

                * - Indicates treadmill (HR is lower on the treadmill due to 0 air resistance)
                MaxHR ~ 196 bpm

                Another snowy / icy week here. A couple of my friends sustained injuries last year running in this crap. I'm taking no chances right now and hit the treadmill most of the week but got outside for a perfect weather Saturday long run.

                Mon #1 - 2 hours Kinda Hilly @ 7:26 (150 bpm)
                *Mon #2 - 35 min @ 8:48 (116 bpm)
                *Tue #1 - 60 min @ 9:45 (110 bpm)
                *Tue #2 - 30 min @ 1% Incline - 8:22 (124 bpm)
                *Wed #1 - 9 Mile Progression @ 1% Incline Mile 1 (9:23) to Mile 9 (6:25) Avg 7:34 (137 bpm)
                *Wed #2 - 45 min @ 1% Incline 8:31 (126 bpm)
                *Thur #1 - 60 min @ 1% Incline 9:31 (110 bpm)
                *Thur #2 - 40 min @ 1% Incline 8:44 (117 bpm)
                *Fri #1 - 70 min @ 1% Incline 8:31 (122 bpm)
                Fri #2 - 35 min @ 8:03 (131 bpm)
                Sat #1 - 17 miles @ 6:28 (158 bpm) Last 6 miles: 6:15, 6:03, 5:54, 6:10, 6:12, 5:50
                Sat #2 - 40 min @ 8:20 (130 bpm)
                *Sun #1 - 60 min @ 1% Incline 9:03 (113 bpm)
                *Sun #2 - 35 min @ 1% Incline 8:57 (120 bpm)

                Weekly Totals

                Miles: 100.7 Miles
                Duration: 13:35
                Elevation Gain: 3897 ft

                Docket_Rocket


                Former Bad Ass

                  Morning!  Ran a marathon two weekends ago and ran/walked it slow and didn't have much speed in me.  So, getting back on track before Disney in January.  First and longest run at MAF in forever.  As you can see, the weather is helping me behave more.

                   

                  Interval 1 mi 12:22 12:22 12:22 126 147  
                  2 Interval 1 mi 12:14 24:36 12:14 134 144  
                  3 Interval 1 mi 12:02 36:38 12:02 129 157  
                  4 Interval 1 mi 11:55 48:33 11:55 125 148  
                  5 Interval 1 mi 11:53 1:00:26 11:53 112 134  
                  6 Interval 1 mi 11:41 1:12:07 11:41 112 127  
                  7 Interval 1 mi 11:49 1:23:56 11:49 115 133  
                  8 Interval 1 mi 11:35 1:35:31 11:35 128 158

                  Damaris

                  SD_BlackHills


                    Morning!  Ran a marathon two weekends ago and ran/walked it slow and didn't have much speed in me.  So, getting back on track before Disney in January.  First and longest run at MAF in forever.  As you can see, the weather is helping me behave more.

                     

                    Interval 1 mi 12:22 12:22 12:22 126 147  
                    2 Interval 1 mi 12:14 24:36 12:14 134 144  
                    3 Interval 1 mi 12:02 36:38 12:02 129 157  
                    4 Interval 1 mi 11:55 48:33 11:55 125 148  
                    5 Interval 1 mi 11:53 1:00:26 11:53 112 134  
                    6 Interval 1 mi 11:41 1:12:07 11:41 112 127  
                    7 Interval 1 mi 11:49 1:23:56 11:49 115 133  
                    8 Interval 1 mi 11:35 1:35:31 11:35 128 158

                     

                    Easy does it!  Keep the goal in mind!  What is your current MAF target?  I haven't done one of those tests in years.  At the time I kept slowing down everytime I'd go one beat over then end up 10 beats below, speed up, go over, slow down, go under.  Obviously, that's terrible training.  Smooth running is where it's at and I just didn't know that at the time.  If I were to do it again, I'd do what the really fast MAF guys are doing and dial into Lap Average HR.

                     

                    Disney sounds like fun!  I'm a bit Disney'd out at the moment since we got Disney+ over the weekend.  

                     

                    3 weeks to CIM!!!

                     

                    * - Indicates treadmill (HR is lower on the treadmill due to 0 air resistance)
                    MaxHR ~ 196 bpm

                    Friday afternoon while driving my car, I tweaked my right calf muscle.. AGAIN.. Light pain while jogging and feel nothing while walking. Probably not a big deal but will need more downtime AGAIN. I shouldn't have tried running today but I'll be fine (I think). Sooo, going to take Monday and Tuesday off to recharge. Got to get to the starting line feeling like a million bucks. 3 weeks to go. Looks like the taper will start earlier than expected.

                    *Mon #1 - 70 min @ 1% Incline 8:53 (112 bpm)
                    *Mon #2 - 40 min @ 1% Incline 6:47 (146 bpm)
                    *Tue #1 - 65 min @ 1% Incline 7:59 (128 bpm)
                    *Tue #2 - 30 min @ 5% Incline 10:13 (119 bpm)
                    *Wed #1 - 65 min @ 1% Incline 9:53 (113 bpm)
                    *Wed #2 - 30 min @ 5% Incline 10:00 (126 bpm)
                    *Thur #1 - 60 min @ 1% Incline 8:50 (120 bpm)
                    Thur #2 - 35 min @ 9:04 (117 bpm)
                    Fri - 10 Mile Tempo at Track @ 6:11 (164 bpm)
                    Sun - 30 min @ 8:10 (128 bpm)

                    Weekly Totals

                    Miles: 58.5 Miles
                    Duration: 8:09
                    Elevation Gain: 3890 ft

                    Docket_Rocket


                    Former Bad Ass

                      I have not done a MAF test in forever.  I should.  I am way below MAF there, though, as my MAF is 136 but better than the HR I was running at the last few weeks!  The weather sure helps!

                      Damaris

                      SD_BlackHills


                        I have not done a MAF test in forever.  I should.  I am way below MAF there, though, as my MAF is 136 but better than the HR I was running at the last few weeks!  The weather sure helps!

                         

                        Not a fan of age based equations but mine would be 138.  Generally speaking, I only exceed that on days in which I pick it up to a tempo effort.  Technically, I think that's probably what Maffetone was after.  The more I think about it, I think the whole point of tying an arbitrary HR target that in probably more cases than not will keep you out of oxygen debt, is helpful to people who don't know what easy running should feel like.  I'm pretty sure that most people just run until they are out of breath every single day and this stopped them from doing that.  So clearly they would see great gains.  So really, I think MAF is more tailored for beginners than us anyway.

                         

                        I don't think a MAF test will tell you a whole lot anyway.  It's so far away from a race effort (unless you're super young where the age equation "lets you" run faster or you have a natural low MaxHR). All it will tell you is if you are faster at an easy effort at a specific arbitrary, unscientific point.  The Hadd test is at least a percentage of MaxHR and varies the intensity.  Have you ever tried that?  It's a lot more fun too.

                         

                        Let's not forget how deceiving HR can be at expressing low intensity effort.  Our heart starts pumping faster based on all kinds of things completely not related to running as well.  I have a great example from this weekend.  I was walking on the treadmill at a 4% incline while watching the Vikings / Broncos game. I was wearing my HR monitor just for fun.   I'm a HUGE Vikings fan and we were trailing 20-0 at half.  My HR was a pretty steady 70 bpm.  Then the Vikings started making a tremendous comeback.  They came all the way back and scored the go ahead TD with a few minutes left.  My HR rose all the way to 120.  In the final minutes, the Broncos drove all the way down the field and it came down to one last play with 2 seconds left from about the 5 yard line.  My HR hit 132.  The Vikings won on the final play.  This is just one example but your HR can skyrocket by simply what you're thinking about and this is especially true at low intensities.  The only situation where I've never seen HR increases due to the music I'm listening to, what I see on TV  or my own thoughts is at efforts closer to threshold.   What's nice about the Hadd test is that the final portion of the test will give you a reasonable hint as to what your current marathon pace is.

                        Docket_Rocket


                        Former Bad Ass

                          I agree.  I don't necessarily follow MAF strictly and can run at up to 145 on occasion especially if it's warm outside. But I was running at 150-160 due to how I was feeling a month ago and that's too high for me.  I think my range is somewhere between 130 and 145 and has always been around there for easy runs.  And remember, now my area is hillier than Miami so keeping it low enough will be good.

                          Damaris

                          SD_BlackHills


                            I agree.  I don't necessarily follow MAF strictly and can run at up to 145 on occasion especially if it's warm outside. But I was running at 150-160 due to how I was feeling a month ago and that's too high for me.  I think my range is somewhere between 130 and 145 and has always been around there for easy runs.  And remember, now my area is hillier than Miami so keeping it low enough will be good.

                             

                            Those hills will be very helpful.  Purposely running easy over hilly routes really seems to jump start my fitness whenever i'm coming back from down time.  If I were you, I'd try and find at least one route that is hilly.

                             

                            I'd agree that 150-160 is too high.  I'm guessing that your breathing is starting to labor a bit too much in that range.

                             

                            If most people are hitting their mileage sweet spot, 145 likely is a tremendous training stimulus effort.  At least that seems to be the case for most people that I know with the exception of a few friends that have very low MaxHR that race at 150.

                             

                            I'm curious, when you run Disney, you don't do that for time do you?  More of a stop and get pictures taken a bunch of times?

                            Docket_Rocket


                            Former Bad Ass

                              Yeap, especially since I"m running the Half on Saturday and the full on Sunday.  But I've been stupid and PRd on the HM only to cry during the full (not literally, lol) and I've almost PRd in the full even after running the half.  But I'm shape of doing neither so, fun it is.

                              Damaris

                              Docket_Rocket


                              Former Bad Ass

                                My HR was higher yesterday and my average was 146, blah.  I was also slow AF yesterday so not sure what was what.  It was a hillier route, though.  Anyway, the 4 I ran were good.

                                Damaris